Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T19:43:38.000Z
latest #36
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T19:55:45.000Z
Despil です
2016-10-31T19:57:10.000Z
We need to figure out a way that works and allows the people to move freely between countries while being secure enough to prevent criminals and such a free ride at the same time.
Despil です
2016-10-31T19:58:01.000Z
It's a big hurdle now, the people can't go where they are needed and could contribute the most.
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Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T19:58:45.000Z
Agree, half-baked immigration policies create more problems than they are trying to solve
Despil です
2016-10-31T19:59:54.000Z
I like the concept of countries at the same time I want to be able to move to and work where ever it hits my fancy :-D
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:00:32.000Z
There are always countries/states/towns/communities/neighbors and their rules
Despil です
2016-10-31T20:01:25.000Z
I know, it's just insane how complicated it can be and how carelessly they change it without thinking through the outcomes.
Despil です
2016-10-31T20:01:43.000Z
I mean the "rules to move here".
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:07:59.000Z
Well, step one is to think hard, about which ones would benefit a community more: merit-based, or humanity based (asylum seeker, family union) ? Given the finite spots for immigrants without big disruption.
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:12:53.000Z
AS of now, employment based compared to family based immigration is such a small percentage https://travel.state.gov...
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:18:31.000Z
In 2015, only 21K (out of 531K total immigrants) were employment based.
Despil です
2016-10-31T20:26:00.000Z
I would split the refugee and immigration issues. Not to mention that the number of immigrants in the US is not a big one, 0.16% of the total population (based on your number above and 2014 US census.
Despil です
2016-10-31T20:26:50.000Z
Unless the number you wrote there is the visas issued and not the total immigrant population - seems very low to me.
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:30:37.000Z
annual visa issued
Despil です
2016-10-31T20:33:51.000Z
yeah, that's more like it, I was thinking after I typed in the first post. Anyway, banks, insurance companies and companies needing engineers are really stretched right now. I am sure an extra 100,000 engineers
Despil です
2016-10-31T20:34:11.000Z
wouldn't even cause a blip in the visa system, but would help the business.
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:35:49.000Z
In 2014, 467K immigrant visa issued, 1.3 million moved in (don't know why it's much bigger than visa issued) and only 21K was employment based
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:38:18.000Z
yeah I agree with what you said, but currently H1B visa is being abused by some large (out-sourcing) Indian international companies
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:38:56.000Z
Before we can greatly expand that program, we also need to address the abuse of system
Despil です
2016-10-31T20:42:50.000Z
Yes, it's not a simple problem. One reason for more people moving in than visa issued - doesn't account for all the difference! - is americans moving home.
Despil です
2016-10-31T20:43:22.000Z
Net immigration includes citizens moving home and citizens moving out.
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:52:01.000Z
I think I have just figured out the 1.3M, it's not the citizens as you guessed, it's mostly illegals plus 120K asylum seekers
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T20:56:27.000Z
So, roughly, 1.3M = 21K employment + 380K family&relatives + 50K lottery + 120K refugees + 670K illegals
Despil です
2016-10-31T21:02:28.000Z
it's interesting that even though they are called "undocumented" they are still counted.
Despil です
2016-10-31T21:02:48.000Z
But yeah, that's a big number too.
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T21:02:53.000Z
yeah so social service can get their pie
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T21:06:09.000Z
don't get me wrong, there is a great need for those undocumented workers, and I am all for them to come and work here! I just don't want to see so many existing wrong incentives that attract wrong kinds of them
Despil です
2016-10-31T21:07:04.000Z
the problem is that if it's "impossible" to come legally, they will come illegally. And then of course will come not just the workers but the non-workers too.
Despil です
2016-10-31T21:07:56.000Z
I'm pretty sure that the people who want to work would be quite happy to arrive legally. But not if it takes 2 years and costs a lot of money which they can't afford.
Despil です
2016-10-31T21:08:12.000Z
"When the gates are sturdy, they climb the fence"
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T21:08:37.000Z
it's because we cannot limit the too-generous social benefit only to those who have "chipped in enough" and watch a big group of people live without insurance and kids without schools
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T21:09:07.000Z
open border works only in a society who doesn't hand out free stuff
Despil です
2016-10-31T21:09:58.000Z
I didn't say open border, just pointed out that the really desperate/dedicated will always find a way
Walkinggeek
2016-10-31T21:10:36.000Z
making anyone who is willing to work to come in is open border to me
Despil です
2016-10-31T21:12:10.000Z
But if they work then there is no problem. They work, pay taxes, and contribute. But it's not a simple issue, loads of related questions come up, from insurance to schooling to housing.
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