Nope. Not for me. Not anymore than I can enjoy Chick Fil A's french fries, knowing what I know about them.

nope

No.

somewhat... but is even doing anything good anymore?

I try but in all reality no. And honestly I don't think you should really...as art comes from a deep place within oneself and I consider it one of the purest ways one can express one's inner self. So if

Nope. It enrages me even further that he actively cultivated a persona that stood on the moral high ground.

you've got some serious janky shit going on, then it's going to affect and reflect in your work.

WhiskeyMonday: I was an ethical vegetarian for a few years. I'm not proud of this, but my craving for animal products eventually won out over my ethical problems with the inhumanity of factory farming.

AnandaS: Maybe with Cosby, it's that his work depended on his persona, and all the news that's emerged makes it really hard (even if you wanted to) to suspend disbelief.

botgirl: I'm a lifelong vegetarian with occasional bouts with veganism, but my cravings for cheese won out over my ethical objections to dairy farming. And I'm terribly ashamed.

I said this in another thread on this topic: The very doubt that Cosby's persona raises (How could someone so loved, so funny, do such a thing?) is what makes it so difficult for victims to come forward.

WhiskeyMonday: I struggle with those kinds of things where my personal actions have no tangible impact on the underlying problem.

If only rapists looked and walked and talked like rapists.

it's amazing how GOOD of a deceiver he was

it's a more public case of the often-heard story of an abuser who surprised everyone in the neighborhood.

but it should show us when people testify that they couldn't EVER have guessed their neighbor was X, cause usually we are like yeaaah right how is that possible....cause it happened to us with him.

yes exactly

He was funny, a good actor, and a philanthropist. He was all of those things, at the same time that he was a rapist. That doesn't mesh with society's Wanted sketch of a rapist.

But it completely and totally meshes with my own experiences in life. The monsters are usually smiling and beloved.

Cosby was beloved for forty years after the first victim dared to come forward. This is where we live.

LannaB: From what I've read, his abuse tended to be drugging molesting. The fact that he didn't want his victims to be aware what he was doing or remember it suggest to a serious mental break.

people live with all kinds of personal contradictions. Most people's aren't as extreme as Cosby's seems to have been.

Personal contradictions are perfectly normal, and are usually my favorite parts of them. This wasn't a personal contradiction so much as a personal justification. He suffered no ill consequences for his actions

so he kept doing it.

I have a few friends who were abused by clergy. A couple have sued the Church as adults. The Catholic church had institutionalized this contradiction between public morality and private abusiveness.

And botgirl, it wasn't "molesting." You know I don't normally nitpick, but society's need to refer to rape as anything but rape makes me see red. It was rape.

WhiskeyMonday: I used "molesting" not to minimize what happen or imply it was less heinous, but in thinking about his psychology, in the way a forensic psychologist might.

botgirl: That's fair enough, but in a society where rape is constantly trivialized, it's a good thing to be mindful of saying. Pardon my momentary PC- it's a rare occurrence.

Why are we surprised at the contradiction? We accepted that comics can be funny despite depression (Robin Williams). So a man can be a beloved father figure despite depravity ...

... We probably all have neighbors like that. This doesn't excuse Cosby, but it makes him a little more undeerstandable

I think what he did was horrible .... but, sadly, I'm not surprised.

Yes it is totally possible to separate the person from the art. If you knew how many artists were total shits IRL it would amaze you..... haha

WhiskeyMonday: On the earlier comment, I meant the contradiction between our ethics and actions. Like you eating cheese and me eating meat

colleenCriss: Yeah. His public persona was almost an archetype of the opposite of rapist. The wise, caring, trustworthy father-figure.

ScarpGodenot: There's the rub. Once you KNOW, how do you let that go? I cannot, and I'm okay with that. I like that I can't put a wall between what I know about the artists and their works.

Though I must say that Bing Crosby and Joan Crawford never recovered their reps after their separate child abuse episodes were exposed......

Somehow, enjoying the art of an abuser feels too much like encouraging the abuse.

It's not just that there is a contradiction, I'm full of 'em myself. To me, the fact that he would go out of his way to chastise others for things like cursing in their stand-up acts, is interesting.

ScarpGodenot: I think Cosby is a special case, in that his art was based on his persona as a trusted father figure.

I never expect what people promote as their persona to actually be their persona.

LannaB: Isn't that the whole idea of Jung's Shadow. That the you tend to demonize externally those who reflect the parts of yourself you can't accept?

botgirl: I was writing the same thing. Many current members of Congress would be perfect examples of this phenomenon.

Yes, I can. I can still enjoy the positive things I drew from growing up with The Cosby Show and Fat Albert, which — let's be honest here — did a huge amount towards normalizing race relations in a very

tense time. However, he's always been a problematic figure, even before the rape revelations (which are not new: these have been known for almost ten years now).

Really good article here about why we as a culture have sort of resisted acknowledging the Cosby problem: No One Wanted to Talk About Bill Cosby's Alleged Crimes Beca...

WhiskeyMonday: I had that experience with Orson Scott Card. I loved his Ender books. But then I found out he's an anti LGBT activist. So I don't want to pay for another work that supports him.

It's interesting ... Cosby's act didn't start out as the father figure .. he did normal stand up and a tv series about espionage. Could it be that he decided to emphasize family when he started this crap?

botgirl: Same here. I was crushed. Perhaps that's how others feel about Cosby now. I'm unsurprised, having heard the allegations several years ago. But Card's asshattery really floored me.

I get the Jung's shadow bit. He never seemed to be demonizing as much as he was suggesting "you could be better." It's a subtle difference between demonizing and asking more of someone, but it is surprising..

...that he would ask more of others and not himself.

Picasso was a total sexist pig womanizer for instance who completely ruined the lives of several women.

Burning Sensations-"Pablo Picasso" from "Repo Man So...

(sorry, I had to post that. I'm sure he was called an asshole.)

You can really see the influence of Orson Scott Card's Mormon religion in his books. And Yes knowing his nutty right wing politics, I still read the Ender books.....

LannaB: I think the dichotomy between his public work and the serious harm of his private actions are what's so intense about this case. I don't think artists, in general, are known for their ethical behavior.

ScarpGodenot: I can still read them. I just don't want to buy them (and contribute in even a tiny way) to his continued success.

botgirl, I do get that. And especially when the artist in question engages in bad political activity....

ScarpGodenot: I want to admit that I'm not very conscious about what I'm supporting in most purchases. I would probably make very different decisions if ethics were the driving force behind my choices.

Roman Polanski is another case in point. Well known taste for underage girls. Does this make Chinatown any less of a great film?

ScarpGodenot: That's why my question what whether it impact our perception of the work, not the quality of the work itself.

I must admit, I avoid Chuck Norris, Bruce Willis and several other actors work because of their harmful political activities....

I think it's one of those cases where there's this pretense of an either/or when it can be both. You can have enjoyed the Cosby Show and still think the guy needs to be in prison if he ever sees a trial

LannaB: btw, any reference to Repo Man is always a total win! haha Iggy Pop repoman

no there's a statute of time regarding rape cases I believe of when you can convict someone

but i'm not entirely sure.

Looks like the statute of limitations for Rape in California is 10 years....

Varies by state. In California it's very complicated, because the statute of limitations is based on the discovery of sexual abuse, not on the commission of the act itself.

We took the whole repressed memory thing very seriously.

Crime Definitions

imma be honest, I always thought he was creepy

I have to wait to see what is proven, but, if any of it is, then nope.

Yeah, I know Cal Penal Code pretty well. I'm just pointing out the additional complication.

but in this case it wouldn't seem to be a case of repressed memories, since the women coming forward knew pretty much immediately? sorry i'm having a hard time voicing my thoughts today coherently

i mean regards to discovery of sexual abuse

bleh i should shut up

Also, again, it varies by state, and the state where the crime occurred is the one whose laws you use. If the crime happened in California, you use California's laws. If the crime happened in New York (where

at least three of these incidents occurred), you use New York law. I'm not saying they involved repressed memory, I'm just saying California has a very complicated statute of limitations

for sex crimes, as do many states.

devil's advocate here, I guess, but everyone's decided he is guilty?

fair question. Given past settlements and new allegations, I'm personally persuaded that at least some of it is true. Enough to question people's reaction to the contradiction between his work and his actions.

nope, i can't

While this isn't new, because the allegations surfaced years ago, it is interesting that it was a man calling him out as a rapist that brought this to a firestorm.

As if the women alone saying it didn't matter.

Vaki, did you read the statute link above? Those 10 year from crime commission ARE the California statutes....

If the accusations turn out to be real, no. I can't. Just like I can't view Katt Williams in the same light after watching one of his "specials" last night.

ScarpGodenot: You may not be understanding what I'm saying. I know the Cal Penal Code very well. I know what the California statutes say. I'm not arguing with what they say about the 10 year statute of

limitations. I'm talking about when that statute of limitations starts tolling, not how long the statute of limitations is.

In California, the statute of limitations starts tolling from discovery of the crime, not from commission of the crime.

"Prosecution must bring a case against the perpetrator within 10 years after commission of the offense." Direct from the above site.

LannaB: I honestly don't believe it is because it came from a man but because of the large spotlight he was able to shine on the situation. It came from one of his peers and it was easily shared it caught fire

I had never heard of the allegations before now. I believe they are true and I'm a victim of a roofie rape I was a 17 year old virgin at the time. I called the police to the scene of the crime when I came to

Unfortunately for me I left the hotel room where it happened and gave the hotel a chance to clean up the evidence (condom) and either way the police did NOTHING even tho I came forward identified the guy

I just don't believe that this many woman can be making it up. They have absolutely nothing to gain here infact it is probably going to hurt them more then it has already. Its too many to ignore

uhm not sure if you realize ScarpGodenot but Vaki is a practicing lawyer in CA, and I'd go with trusting her to know what she's talking about it in this instance

I think the art exists in the field of the creator, and as itself, and as the effects it has on other people, and all of those things are incredibly mixed.

I heard about the rape accusations against Cosby about a year before this broke open, and... weirdly I wasn't surprised. I didn't know beforehand, but I wasn't surprised. The last year has been a wash of

finding out how extensive the abuse of vulnerable people is in the world, and I don't know whether I want to weep for weeks or burn the universe down.

Vaki: how would the case be different if the victims were children and not of age. Would there even be a statute of limitations?

Hempy_the_Unplurkable: Actually, yes. The ten-year statute starts tolling when they're 18 (so they have until their 28th birthday to file suit).

It's just that if they're older, and they've repressed the memories but later discover the abuse, that they have another chance.