i dont'see anyone getting attacked but what blows my mind is that creators seem to laugh about the secret and find it hillarious

yep, that blows my mind too

Certain creators are making fun of it. I guess they don't care about what the TOS is

it is!

wait till their shit gets ripped.. then youll see real tears.

Douleur: or actual laws is just sad

I hate to jump in and have another opinion but whether or not someone breaks the law shouldn't be something people try to start drama about...

Especially when no one knows if it the creator who made IP or copyright or whatever breaches knew he/she was breaking the law at the time

To be honest, everyone should try minding their own business

Yes, please be silent while copyright is being violated. Pointing out that someone is directly benefiting from someone else's hard work is far worse than actual copyright infringement.

Why not just report them and be done with it? Why all the drama?

since when is discussing drama?

After all the infringer's feelings might be hurt after a google image search proves they're not a font of unbridled creation.

i feel people are using the term wrong.

I think it can get out of hand at times...Like when sarcasm is involved.

Exactly - it should be a private matter between the creator and the copyright owner, or just one conversation between a creator and a customer who noticed the violation, followed by the creator simply removing

the item

wait. we're now discussing the discussions?

I mean the blog posts and stuff...I am not sure they do any good.

things got very meta very fast

you cant stop people from commenting though.. example: if you go to a restaurant and you didn't like it, are you suppose to write the chef letters? nope. you can just post a review on yelp

seriously this is all so....yeah its going fast! We're now discussing if we can discuss the topic??? i'm gonna enjoy some sun hey

oh I have no interest in controlling people's opinions at all..not that I could anyways

MarkusSlingshot3: I'm sorry, plirk ate my #extremefuckingsarcasm hashtag.

I was just commenting on people's seriously lack of respect

i thought SL was a community, not 1-on-1

but my plurk is exploding with this. Is everyone reporting the violations? Or just talking about it?

Haha GRMcIntyre

at this point what i see is everyone talking about it, "it" being that its in secrets, and that ehmm..i dunno anymore. sun for me.~! LOL

wouldnt talking about it and giving the creator a chance to fix, better than reporting them

I wonder how proactive SL is dealing with copyright violations

gogolita of course they can comment and of course SL is a community - but people shouldn't start drama

Most of the ones I see are ones where the supposed creator refused to address it.

especially when this drama can lead to hate campaigns on Plurk most of the time

EvaEames: not.

everything can lead to hate campaigns on plurk/internet

eva: not proactive, for legal reasons. linden lab take down content when they receive a dmca, and only the copyright holder can file one.

but at least they remove it?

yes.

And sometimes not even then.

though if the creator refuses to address copyright stuff, I am perfectly fine with all forces of plurk taking them down as brutally as possible

though i've heard quite a few people complain that the removal process is slow, error-prone and often, incomplete.

it is

jackalennui: and often alts of the ripper pop right back up

lol oh crap i walked away to make breakfast and there's like 50 replies... oops

ok regarding "why not report them and be done with it?".. wouldn't you want to know that someone in your town was a criminal? or shh just quietly tell the cops, no one needs to know?

I, personally, want to make sure that none of my hard earn money goes to someone who is stealing from someone else, bc that's what it is. theft.

i DO agree with talking to the person ahead of time if you think they might not know the rules but, in my experience here in SL... almost everyone I have ever known to violate copyright, has known FULL WELL.

In fact, there are people I KNOW 100% to have committed intellectual property theft here in SL... but they always come out as being AGAINST that type of thing when there is public outcry. fucking hypocrites.

^ THAT.

What I meant was that if it's an /accidental/ one off there shouldn't be drama

But

sure, if its an accident...

If it's a serious case of everything they make being copybotted or whatever then all the drama is okay

but some of the most popular brands in SL, those who have been involved with campaigns, etc... they still do it. they do not care. at all. they KNOW the rules and do not care, THAT is where the issue it.

But what I think is disgusting is that both sides of the argument are basically attacking each other

plus... anyone who uploads anything mesh? if you don't know the rules, well, you didn't read the quiz.

when you ask someone about something obviously not theirs and they say.. i made it.. it means they KNOW theyre in the wrong.. otherwise why lie?

oh, im sorry, people are attacking those who blatantly break the rules/law and don't care? boo-fucking-hoo

No, don't be silly, you completely misunderstood

and yes, calling someone the "copyright police" or making a picture of a crying baby with a copyright symbol, is bullying the people who are trying to PROTECT legit creators.

ok but i dont think we are talking about those who accidentally break the rules once, say I am sorry, and never do it again.

making a picture? lol. the copyright crybaby is not original content. cajsa posted the link to the source.

jackalennui: ok that's not original but, lol i COULD argue fair use on that at least

of all the people whose creations have been questioned on their IP integrity, there was ONE who said "oops my bad i didn't know" and ONE who was using licensed content. so, yeah, accidental much? i doubt it.

What I was trying to say was your side shouldn't be starting drama about people who just see it as none of their business, and the people who see it as none of their business should not start drama at your side

ely: indeed, it could probably pass as fair use.

MarkusSlingshot3: i'm not saying everyone needs to get up in arms about it, and if you aren't outraged there is something wrong with you... but ffs the people who got attacked were those who stood up and said:

"this isn't ok, and we aren't letting you get away with it." but somehow they are the bad guys?

MarkusSlingshot3: sorry but it is every creator's business to know who steals and it is every consumer's right to know who sells stolen stuff.

i was away on my trip when this shit hit the fan, so i read things on plurk but didn't really have a good opportunity to respond to it. and this is high up on my list of things i have a problem with in SL.

ekuZhong: THIS "every consumer's right to know who sells stolen stuff."

I was just saying that I wish everyone just cooled down the drama cause it got a bit out of hand

I do think that these bad creators should be outed though, yeah.

Do I think this whole thing should turn into another plurk drama fest? No, it's petty

well, from what i saw, it only got out of hand because those who brought the topic to the public's attention got crucified for it.

maybe i missed something, as i said i wasnt totally here

ill be honest here, there are two VERY well known, VERY successful creators in SL who have committed IP theft, and I contacted the original artists because frankly, I don't have the kind of social clout that

would stand up to the creators fan-clubs.

but i really wish people knew they were thieves. because every time people oohh and ahhh over a new release i think... yeah, you're a fuckin thief.

yeah, basically it got out of hand because everyone was "hey IP violation is no big deal and besides our hands are tied and look a squirrel!"

i keep hearing about witch hunts and drama and seeing none on my tl tbh

ely_eilde: i know.. i see quite a bit of it from a few really big names.. and it really boggles my mind that they think they are impervious

I'm kind of surprised how quickly mentioning something, and maybe deciding to not spend time on it if one does things for the community, becomes a witch hunt.

There's more drama from the people complaining about drama and complaining about copycat police than anywhere else.

But that is the way it always happens, someone objects to something, shares a concern, even just asks a question and the "don't tell me what to do" crowd goes nuts.

CajsaLilliehook: i had never seen so much like that before and i´ve been trying to grasp that sort of attitude but tbh i can´t

Well, let me be frank - when you pulled the pins from H&G and said you would not support the event after being so frustrated by their response to your concerns, while that is not technically calling for a

boycott, it is received that way. If I say I would never wear an Indian headdress, for example, it is clear that I think there is something wrong with wearing an Indian headdress.

these type of people will scream the loudest if their IP is infringed

(If I do not have the right to wear one.)

the think is casja both me and you speak only for ourselves

So people feel judged even if you do not say they have to follow your example. Anytime someone sets and example, there is an implicit understanding that the exemplar is what we think is right.

i can´t make otherschange theirways i knowi can´t

That is why people keep saying you called for a boycott.

well i didn´t

I know that.

never did and never wil

But when people take a stand - and you know I believe in taking stands - the consequence is that folks who do not take that position feel judged.

And nothing makes people get demented faster than feeling judged - particularly on such brightline issues as theft and racism.

i´m the least judgemental person you will probably find around here tbh

i dotake pride in what i do tho

But for me, I think people make mistakes all the time. Their mistakes do not define who they are. I think wearing that headdress is wrong. It does not make the person who did it evil.

When one takes a stand, one draws a line. If one is influential, then a lot of people start getting obsessed with which side of the line they're in.

at the end of the day is not about me trust me i pin stores i don´t like i pin stores i don´t like the owners

And frankly, some of the headdress posts that have proliferated make me want to cry, but that is error, not evil.

for me it´s about the events

I think that goes no matter the topic, from which star trek is the best (Voyager) or whether something is racist.

So yeah, people get mad. The thing is, I have confidence in my judgment and so if people are angry with me about it, that's okay.

i just wish people understood that whatever lines being drawn even if in public are still personal ones

But I won't say I don't judge. I judge the act, though, not necessarily the person. I only get to judging the person if they are deliberately, repeatedly and proudly awful.

I'm on the fence... some lines I draw, if you're on a different side we likely won't be friends, and that makes them de facto public (especially if i were well known, which I'm not).

And, I have to acknowledge, even in judging a person, i seem them only in one context. I do not seem them in other environments, I don't see their suffering, their pain, their hard work, their trials. I know

that I only see a portion of their lives and can safely assume that they are multi-faceted and may have many good qualities that are invisible to me in the environment where I observe them acting.

People are, I think, generally good. There's maybe 3-5% who are not. So, many of the people I personally dislike are probably good people, but we just meet in a context that is not a good match for us.

But then, I have a sister who is a true sociopath, so I think I have an acquaintance with how truly evil people operate that put just about everyone else in perspective. I do not exaggerate, even my parents

who loved her very much, acknowledged she was diabolical from childhood.

I have never seen a plurker who comes within striking distance of her.

I think one concern some have, is that people like to pop on Plurk and make these very adamant, specific legal declarations on issues like copyright infringement,

when it is literally impossible for them to have all the information necessary to make those sorts of judgements.

I think most people who call themselves a 'creator' and laugh about IP rights might want to consider changing their title to 'thief' as those typically are the only people who tend to have such bad attitudes.

& regarding the issues personally, I feel that if you/your event has been notified about clear and obvious theft, and you choose not to act, that is disrespectful and /should/ be outed.

Dysfunctionality: The problem is that unless the person who is notifying the event coordinator is the actual owner of the IP in question, they almost certainly cannot prove that there has been infringement.

Dysfunctionality: I agree with that. Also, I agree with Cajsa:THe BIG drama comes from those who whine about those who out the thieves.

Dysfunctionality: Certainly there is a fine l one to be walked. It is true that someone may have sought and received authorization. Which is why, for example, in the case of the stolen album art, the bands

WERE contacted. And yes, businesses like LL and charities like RFL follow specific legal procedures and do not act on allegations without a DMCA.

That should be fine line - how that become l one I have no idea.

ONSL: and yes, that is why the bands were contacted so they could act on their own behalf.

But again and again, the majority of the complaint comes from people who would rather pretend everything is on the up and up - even when it's rather obviously not - because they like the person who has

been caught (and that's okay to like them, no one is summed up by one mistake) or because they like/want the item (which I understand, I want people to make Herve Leger dresses) but

rather than say Damn, I wish that were different or Well, it may be a copy of someone else's designs, but I am going to wear it anyway, they can't seem to see themselves doing something they think they

CajsaLilliehook: I definitely agree with your assessment as to how to handle the situation. There is a procedure and I'd adamantly advocate following those procedures to resolve infringement issues.

should not do, so insist that it is silly, not theft, or who can tell or a host of other ways to rationalize it being okay this one time. And then they shoot the messenger.

I think we're mostly on the same page here I just would prefer that those who choose to stand up and make legal accusations do so with a modicum of restraint.

As for creators who willfully infringe, repeatedly and in a slavish manner (and their apologists), I find it difficult to take that lot seriously at all.

I have a lot of experience in encountering specifically stolen medi-fantasy game content, since that happens to be my business niche. In each case, I've notified the appropriate business, HOWEVER

When you can compare side by side images of the game with images of the item in SecondLife that look identical, and this happens several times, with issues like massive alpha flickering from non SL optimised

items, and in most cases very low resolution textures, excruciatingly low resolution files, and a series of continued issues therein, you should at least - as an organizer - take an investigation of it.

I feel this is especially the case for the RFL organizers as that is a private event, they can choose to say no or rule over who is in or not. It's their land, their event, their right. And it looks really

really bad in terms of publicity when that stuff comes to air from a charity organization. I am sure that Relay for Life has no interest in ill begotten money, so they need to protect themselves.