Calaban shares
2011-08-12T14:26:27.000Z
a liberal leaning post for your morning reading.
latest #27
Daningo says
2011-08-12T14:53:10.000Z
Have you seen any posts on what programs got cut - detail on the budgets for the riot areas? Is there correlation?
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:27:18.000Z
I suspect that one would have to listen to BBC much more thoroughly than I do to have this info. I listen for ten minutes here and there.
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:27:45.000Z
Plus, correlation doesn't work like that, I don't think. Correlation is almost never 1:1 when it comes to social or collective action.
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Calaban
2011-08-12T15:28:23.000Z
It tends to run in sets--12:1. Put differently, you would have to see changes to multiple programs, which produces widespread resentment,
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:28:51.000Z
which then leads to anger that is set off by a "triggering event." The triggering event in this case was the shooting. That pattern
Calaban is
2011-08-12T15:29:25.000Z
fairly general, at least, for the US context.
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:30:50.000Z
It is a pattern I teach in my course on civil rights, when I discuss the violence--racial hate crimes and urban riots--aspects of that mvt.
Daningo says
2011-08-12T15:41:09.000Z
I get that the resentment spreads beyond those directly impacted by cuts so there may be no correlation to the final rioters,
Daningo says
2011-08-12T15:47:39.000Z
but it would be good to see evidence that there was actual impact from the cuts vs rumor (I'm not looking for anyone here to provide that)
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:51:46.000Z
I understand that you are not asking anyone here to provide that evidence, but it is still an interesting research question that is useful
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:52:03.000Z
to our political conversations. What sort of evidence demonstrates impact?
Calaban is
2011-08-12T15:52:55.000Z
testimony of a rioter that s/he has been hurt by cuts good evidence for impact? Are statistics about relative wealth trends, that the poor
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:53:52.000Z
get poorer, good evidence? Is evidence that unemployment in the section of town were rioting occurred increased by 2% good evidence? I'm not
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:54:55.000Z
asking to be confrontation, but to both illustrate the complexity of the task/research involved and to show how easy it is to disagree
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:55:29.000Z
about policy issues, because what is good evidence for one party is bad evidence for another. First, one agrees on the relevant question.
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:55:57.000Z
Then one agrees on a method for answering the question. Then one needs to agree on the evidence that illustrates the answer.
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:56:30.000Z
Then there is the need to at least begin to agree on an interpretation of the evidence.
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:56:54.000Z
This is the process that needs to happen, and it precisely that process that doesn't happen either among politicians or among citizens who
Calaban
2011-08-12T15:56:59.000Z
disagree about public policy.
Daningo says
2011-08-12T16:10:01.000Z
Yes, those are good points to apply - one specific example I'd like to see would be a geographic impact of the specific program cuts blamed
Daningo says
2011-08-12T16:10:58.000Z
as a causal factor - those could conceivably be determined by the UK govt from check records, programs shuttered or reduced
Daningo says
2011-08-12T16:11:38.000Z
I do think testimony from residents about the impact of cuts is valuable, but discount second or third hand testimony
Calaban says
2011-08-12T16:12:09.000Z
the research on political persuasion is pretty clear that most folks, regardless of their political preference, are persuaded not by info or
Daningo says
2011-08-12T16:12:34.000Z
You are going to the same place I was - to an extent, facts and evidence don't matter
Calaban says
2011-08-12T16:13:49.000Z
evidence but on whether or not the claim/message agrees with what they already believe or want to believe. divergent data is ignored or
Daningo says
2011-08-12T16:13:49.000Z
Well, you may be going that direction
Calaban says
2011-08-12T16:14:52.000Z
misinterpreted to support the person's original position. true of the left and the right.
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