Kid: Can I say something that's gonna make you mad???

Me: I'm not gonna be mad.

Kid: No you're gonna be really really mad.

Me: ....Okay what's up

Kid: I don't want to go to New York next week. I know you already got hotel and tickets and things.

Me: (breathes) Okay. Can you talk a little about why you don't want to go??

Kid: I didn't know how far away New York was from Massachusetts and I kind of want to not go that far.

Kid: And actually it's kind of your fault because you said "Bronx Zoo" but you didn't say it was going to be so many miles away and I wouldn't have said yes if I knew how far away it was going to be.

Kid: But you and Sergio should just go and leave me here to watch the kitties. It's what my aunt did. It's what [former foster mom] did because I do this where I say I want to go but then I don't want to, not really

Me: Okay. Well, I'm not mad. Thank you for telling me now and not before we were in the car, that would have been way worse. Fortunately everything is able to be cancelled, we're okay there. Can you talk a bit about the trip, is it just because it would be with us, or are you nervous about something else??

Come to find out she's worried about hotel arrangements, she's scared she's going to have another migraine, she hates her birthday and wants it to be just another day, etc, etc.

So yep. Not going to NY, will tell Sergio tomorrow morning, but I said that I wasn't going to go and leave her behind, I want to do fun things with her and if she's not going to have a good time, then we can stay home.

We chatted for a while and I think that had been building on her for a while

At least we'll save money I guess???

We'll do a staycation instead

And she finally said what she wanted for dinner tomorrow so win win I guess???

And I said to her that part of being part of our family and living in our house is nobody gets left behind and I wouldn't feel right leaving her while me and Sergio have fun. And I said to not feel bad because I wasn't mad, because in a few months to a few years, she was going to go off and have a life and a job and apartment, and

me and Sergio would be in between kids as foster parents and feeling like the house was quiet and go "we should go to NY together". That there would always be time for us to do something as a couple, but as long as we had kids in the house, they should always factor into what we'd be planning

so just because it's extremely similar to my youth i have to point out that "I do this where I say I want to go but then I don't want to, not really" is worrying. does she not want to go but is scared saying no will disappoint you? or is this a crippling anxiety disorder that needs intervention so she learns to challenge it before turning into my mother?

i did this my entire childhood and into young adulthood where when things got closer any excitement turned to crushing panic and i'd be in hysterics and get violently ill before trips.

i was usually forced to go to not waste money spent, and did enjoy the thing i was initially excited about, but it would have saved me decades of suffering if anybody had gotten me a psychiatrist before [things got worse]. so whether she did want to or didn't and bluffed for your sake is extremely important to distinguish in this behavior pattern.

She did say she wanted to go to a therapist again so that was promising?? But yeah I'm not positive which it is and I don't know if she knows either.

I think part of it was "I don't want to sleep in the same room as you and Sergio" and part of it was "NYC is going to be loud and bright and what if I get another migraine and have to stop"

it was okay for Chicago for a few nights with just me but I think she's really uncomfortable sleeping in the same room as him even if it's separate beds, even if DCF okayed it.

But also I....can't afford two hotel rooms??

those are all valid reasons to not want to go! but if they're just anxiety worries drowning out something she did want, that's. important.

and also she didn't like how long it would be. I asked if shortening the trip would ease her worries and she said no

Yeah I think she'd want to go if it was closer but she also feels very worried about 'forgetting' something important??

IDK

yeah if she hadn't specifically mentioned "i do this, i don't ever actually want to go" i would not be prarie dog posing like uhhhhh

I said I'd talk to Sergio in the morning and we'd cancel it so it's not a Done Deal yet but it was a pretty lengthy conversation and I think she didn't want to go but then saw how excited I was to show her places so uhhh

IDK she also struggles to articulate her own feelings too??

as a pattern long enough to recognize this might be a real disability

I made her go to the Bad Bunny concert and then she had a blast but

It's tough

Yeah she mentioned yesterday to me for the first time that she didn't want to walk around by herself because she was anxious and scared but couldn't explain why

So that might be a good indication of a disability too

yeah i'm just pointing it out because i did the exact same thing and when forced through the anxiety to do the thing i had a blast..... but like. i also had reasonable justifications at the time and in a vaccuum no one realized.

Yeah. ANd I don't ever want to force her to do shit but I also want her to experience more of the world than just our small state. What do you think would have helped you? I'm researching therapists again but IDK what else to do

she is a little older than when i had my first psychotic break and it turned into full blown agoraphobia but. may not just be anxiety could be Anxiety like medical intervention would really help and improve her life experience.

psychiatrist, not just therapist.

Definitely, good to know! thank you

and how long has she done this, can she come up with some examples and the reasoning behind bailing on the thing, like. the pattern is very important.

One of Sergio's uncles is agoraphobic, I've never had the chance to meet him. I know Kid is more like. "I want to only go to places familiar to me" but can be convinced if we have $$$ on the line

But I think this NY thing is just too much for her

mine went back to bitty childhood, i was violently ill every morning, always, and if you fed me breakfast i would puke on the bus or in school and get sent home sick. i was always sick in the morning.

...............that was a daily panic attack.

Like she didn't want to go to this museum in Boston until she found out we had tickets and I said it would be awesome and I'd love it if she did. And then she came and told me it was the best time she'd had in months

"i only want to go to familiar places" is part of how my mother experiences it

Oh that sucks

we have different presentations and she never challenged it

so she cannot do things alone

she is 66.

I think part of it is her childhood too. She went to school, she came home. If she was anywhere else she'd get beaten. If the bus was late getting home she'd get beaten

i asked her to go pick something up for my rescue once and it was in a neighborhood she'd never driven and she had a panic attack and i had to send my ex to go bring her and the car home

So a lot of it could be "oh I'm not where I should be" even though the people that did that to her are deceased now

oh that blows

yeah there is both nature and nurture influences

i see the nurture ones! but mine were also very convincing at the time as situational.

that sounds a lot like my aunt too. She drove from my parents' house on LOng Island and then panicked when she got to NYC and my dad needed to go find and pick her up and drive with her until she got past the GW bridge

the nature component, if present, requires treatment. so this is an issue she needs to really puzzle out with a professional.

Agreed, yeah

my mom can't drive on anything bigger than a two way street

Damn thanks for talking this out with me, I should have realized a lot of it might be trauma-based

she cannot go anywhere new alone. she cannot take the subway. she is very dependent on me because she got medicated far too late in life and didn't do any behavioral therapy.

Man. That's tough, for you and your mom both

we caught mine at 18, my mother was 40, and i started behavioral therapy immediately whereas she only ever did talk therapy for a chemical problem-- you see how she never managed to be independent

like maybe it is 100% trauma and reasonable and something she can work through in therapy alone! but i would suggest she discuss the experience of this pattern as honestly as possible with the therapist because some of us just have fucked up chemicals, man.

So is it something that I should look into in regards to agoraphobia or is it more anxiety/depression related, d'you think? I'm asking mainly so I know what to look for when researching psychiatrists

i cannot logic myself out of a physiological attack, sometimes even still if i'm too excited about something my body has a panic response. it's very annoying in that case! but adrenaline is focusing and even happy excitement? panic. because chemical fuckery.

She's gone through three already, hoping that the fourth sticks around long enough

im glad that she was able to tell you though

shes doing well

if she likes her current therapist, she should probably work through figuring out where the fear comes from with them tbh

and if the pattern doesn't have enough similar causes for it to be trauma/situational, psychiatrist. churning through doctors is really disheartening at that age, i remember.

she's definitely better than i was re: telling you early

i'd just panic in my head and then like the night before have a breakdown.

She is unfortunately in between therapists ATM. Her last one she quit because she was coming out worse than she went in, and the previous two moved onto other practices

(i think she's a few years older tho and is in a much safer space to upset adults kdjhfkdshf)

and again maybe it is all trauma no doctor needed but uh. uhhhhh. my alarm bells!!

But yeah I really said like I was proud of her, that took some guts to say. It's tough to be the rain-on-people-'s-parades and I kind of tried to cheer her up by saying that I probably couldn't walk as far as I though anyway

yeah no I hear you!

honestly, my 'this is the one i'll stick with' doctor at the time wound up being a psychiatrist who did the therapy himself.

She mainly needs someone who'll talk to her about her day-to-day without wanting to get into past experiences immediately, is my vibe

yeah it's huge that she told you, i'm just really concerned by her self-described pattern of behavior that matches a chemical anxiety disorder lmao

The last one was rough. It was all "do you think you're a bad daughter, rate yourself 1-10"

in that case you probably have to pre-screen

Definitely yeah. I'm gonna ask her former foster mom, she probably has some ideas.

to this day i hate onboarding with new docs because of the "okay give me all your childhood trauma in two hours or less" like. IT'S A MOOD, KIDDO

\o/ tell me about it. I've gone through so many ob/gyns that move to different practices as soon as I'm comfortable with them

"hey I'm very fat and have all of these issues and I might cry and and and ohhhhh you're gone"

especially since my day to day function problems are chemical and i need coping skills and treatment more than "ahhh so it was your grandmother saying x that caused y--" yeah doc you're 20 years behind me i'm not upset about that anymore i do my reframing like a good little patient but i need a meds adjustment please.

por que no los dos is also the motto of my psychiatric treatment life experience lmao

"could be this disorder, or could be this severe trauma" BOTH, ACTUALLY.

and both need addressing! so just in case she also has both!

if you can somehow request/screen therapists who will start with symptom management, who do both trauma and behavioral therapy maybe?

learning how to process and understand and cope with her feelings is just as important as why those feelings are happening in the first place. someone willing to work on distress tolerance and processing stuff before digging into "and where does that come from" is definitely out there.

Oh no, I know you were looking forward to trip. But I'm glad communication happened.

communication is amazing she should be so proud of the communication that is HARD

Apparently also it's good when I say "I'll be downstairs for 3-4 hours if you need to talk" when she's in a mood and trying to destress because she does come down in a much better way?

just. time to examine this pattern. since it's definitely impacting her well being.

legit

the fact that she's doing it on her own is huge

.......okay i do need to try to sleep sorry to come in like WEE OOO just. concerning thing, get that mole checked dkjfshdkgfsh this analogy has gotten away from me but hugs for you and kiddo

maybe it is just what it is maybe it is more and we can help let's take a closer look! etc. goodnight. /)_o

fffff thanks for all your help! Night!

definitely lots of anxiety flags in here for sure

and things a therapist can help her with

if it's an anxiety disorder, medication might be able to take the edge off it. won't fix everything, but will make it much more manageable, hopefully to the point where she can voice her worries ahead of time

for potential trips to NYC or other big possibly overwhelming places, it might help to instead make multi-day trips to a smaller, quieter place that's within daytrip distance of the city. and don't book tickets for attractions in advance

I'm glad she came to talk to you finally, that's a big step.

One thing that has helped some of my patients re: a new therapist is typing up a synopsis/backstory document for the therapist to read so they have the information, but the patient doesn’t have to fully rehash it all in person

And if there comes a time for a new therapist? Just hit print again. No need to redo everything another time

legit yeah

And we're down again. I'm so tired

"I want to go to Chili's" from her. Okay, we can do pick-up. "No the food will be cold" wtf?

"Never mind"

And I say, hey, I'm a little annoyed about this back and forth thing

and now she's in her room with her boyfriend mad about it because I didn't want to drive to a restaurant and leave them there

that one's just being a teenager, i have no advice there

I started to get anxiety really bad in high school and on, and I went on several very expensive trips that then became more expensive because I had panic attacks and had to buy plane tickets to go home. so I can definitely relate to that worry

part of it is being out in the open plans-wise, not having a place to reliably relax and decompress, small uncomfortable hotels and mounting anxieties with no way to relieve them, and I've been able to accomodate myself for that

she has such a complicated relationship with even the concept of relaxing, I'm not surprised that her travel plans can end up in a mess sometimes