Uhh - sounds like a type or a missed word to me .... but I don't know much

radio program-- some guy called in to say he was happy about Tiller death.. had prayed for it (imprecatory prayer) and God answered

imprecate: to invoke or call down (evil or curses), as upon a person.

Synonyms: curse, execrate, anathematize, accurse, denunciate.

discussing the "unChristianess" of such an idea when I was told (without source) that such prayers were in (at least the Divine Office)

before v2

SO - I'm guessing they are part of the rite of Anathema from back in the day

I've delt with this apologetically a few time

Oh, that would have a different connotation then, right?

Yes, the 13th -14th century language and Council of Trent language sounds very harsh

the way it was being spoken of it was like, "God kill this guy and send him to Hell"

You have to read it carefully to see the point and understand the context of what a formal anathema excommunication is and the intent

Keep in mind always that the Church NEVER has said anyone is certainly in Hell

And that the Church in union with God ardently desires the Salvation of Every Soul

But there is a series of lines in the prayer that surrender the subject to the devil unto death - idea being to scare the daylights out of

them and it is "unto" death - not after death. The prayer ends by praying the subject repent and be saved

That's what I was thinking... do you have an "official source" I can show to the other person

I don't know why or if any of these prayers were ever int he Devine Office? That sounds odd to me - they were official prayers in the rite

of exorcism.

oh yeah, thank you for your answer

Glad I read this Plurk. I learned something.

me too

I'm trying to find the resource - I may have to go back and find the blog comments where I did this last

anathema

excommunication

But those don't have the prayers

Oh, it is in the anathema article, read carefull about 2/3 of the way in

"Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles,

and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth,

we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord,

we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth,

we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate,

so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body,

that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment."

Oh my! That is some serious tough love. Scary stuff.

Thinking more about that : THis is from the right of Major Excorcism, which I *think* can only be performed by the Pope with the help of

several more priests and Bishops

Certainly **very Very** misguided at least, if not forbidden for a lay person to say this prayer

Looking more in Catholic Encyclopedia - looks like other examples of imprecatory oaths or vows are bringing the curse down on the one

taking the vow or oathe

Okay - now I am googling "imprecatory prayres" and finding a bunch of Fundy /evangelical stuff - really out there

GNW_Paul: The fact that some psalms are not in the LOH or Mass does not mean the laity cannot pray it... this came up in my OT scripture

Class. Our prof pointed out the Psalms are VERY human, but some prayers are NOT meant to be prayed in community, but can help us express

ourselves in private prayer. And of course, there could be the problem of missing the point of the prayer

Which would be a greater problem in community!

I'm reading some stuff I found on Google by Protestants who think the we should pray the imprecatory psalms as spiritual weapons

AdoroTeDevote: I think the understanding exhibitted (3rd hand) by the guy who called into the radio show would be way outside of Catholic

*sigh* Which is why it's so disastrous for them to be reading a Catholic book without the Magisterium to guide them

exactly

Very grateful to have been led by the HS to trust in the Magisterium and to have BXVI

Amen to that!