my problem is this. "word of god" from the author says the character is asexual aromantic

or specifically, that had she KNOWN about asexual aromantics being a thing, she would have written the character that way.

so its somewhat of a 'retcon' they i don't really like puitting it that way

however, in the book this character has clear moments of crushing on another character, and i think it's cute and i'd like to ship them/find fanwork of them as a couple.

but that feels like im forcing my view of happiness onto a character or something and i know its a fictional character and all but

basically is it okay to ship a character who is stated to have an asexual orientation. and why or why not, that's my question and i'd like to hear other peoples opinions

The moral quandary is about not wanting to erase representation by sticking the character in the same emotional formula that other characters would better fit, right?

idk

that stuff is complicated

but I feel like going after an aroace character for shipping seems like barking up the wrong tree

its really the same as shipping a lesbian character with a man

it seems like a double standard if you would object to shipping explicitly gay characters in a het relationship but would ship in a traditional sense with an aroace character

I think it's okay to ship anything so long as you're not insisting it's canon (against all evidence) or you're not rationalizing it in a offensive way (such as dismissing asexuality as a thing)

It's trickier with a word of god post-canon reveal, since that's not what I could call explicit. But there's a similar concern of erasing finite representation.

yeah

like i guess it kind of comes across like "what good is this character if you can't ship with them?"

I'm very shrug about it and love multishipping just anybody with anybody, for the sake of what if and exploring character dynamics. But with a sense of, don't forget what's canon of them.

I'm not saying it's hugely immoral either way because it's ultimately just fiction and the characters aren't real and its just fandom

but... i'd bet its something that WOULD hurt some feelings, at any rate.

it's also a little tricky when canon blatantly contradicts what the author says outside of canon too

Like, if a character has shown romantic or sexual attraction to another character in canon, but the author later says they're aroace, I can see where the confusion could be

Yeah. I don't go "ah, Keladry of Mindelen, my aroace hero!" after her crushes where I imagined how things might have gone if the crushes had felt something on those lines for her.

I go "ah, her sense of fulfillment from helping people is more to her than any of the shipping complications, so she'd only be content partnered with someone who shares those values"

actually keladry is who im referring to

ive just gotten to the part of the book where she seems to be crushing on neal and its cute

i can't help thinking "i wonder what that dynamic would be like" and finding it interesting, though i knew already going into the series that tamora has stated kel to be aroace

personally im the type of person who wouldn't be offended if someone wanted to ship a lesbian/gay character with someone of the opposite gender. but i understand why people don't like it because its sort of a denial of the characters identity. like if you can't really see someone being in the relationship in an ic way its sort of like 'whats the point'

or even just some kind of weird wishful thinking/self insert like a "wouldn't the character be better IF" which yeah is rude

also of course there's the erasing representation aspect

in this case the fact that keladry is aroace hasn't come up in what i've read yet. so it feels. it feels really weird to read a character having a romantic crush on someone and then

have the author sort of retcon it

so anyway while normally i would think "yes this is wrong because it erases representation and [other reasons i listed]" in this case it feels like the author's interpretation of her has just... shifted since canon has been written and i don't know if that changes that at all

lol this probably doesnt make any sense. im not going to cry if shipping it is offensive or anything i guess i was just curious what people would think

yeah that's a weird situation

i think that like... if you explored shipping while also keeping them on the aroace side of things, like... not just having her go FULL SHIPPING, and keeping that part of her in focus even if its more flexible than the author claims would have been appropriate

yeah i feel like quix has about got it

especially since there's canon precedent

I... don't really care for the author's reveal with her honestly. This one really is an odd case though.

but Kel and Neal are pretty cute.

i dont even think it will work long term? im only on book 2 right now

but i like opposites attracting im ngl its my weakspot

and they are very opposite

they have a very fun dynamic

that series really is wonderful though, I'm always glad to see new people are reading it

i hadnt read it for a long time because i always thought "isn't this the same plot as the lioness quartet"

but now im reading it im like

"ITS NOT THE SAME AT ALL> ITS BETTER"

i mean im rereading the alanna series alongside this and george just fucking drugs alanna in the second book ????

LIKE HE DOESNT DO ANYTHING TO HER BUT STILL CAN WE NOT MAYBE?

this was after i was already like "ew" when he kissed her without her consent

and like they meet in the library and it describes alanna as afraid basically whenever he's like "i like you" im just like

um this is not how you romance tammy p

haaaa yeah that moment is... yeah...

I like George a lot better by the end of the quartet when he's learned some goddamn chill but tamora pierce and romance just. very often doesn't work.

looking at the first couple song of the lioness, some of protector of the small, and then the middle book of provost's dog you can see she's learning about actual consent but there's also the feeling that men pursue and women permit.

i didnt get that feeling in wild magic but that romance has very different issues

like the fact that she retconned them to be only 7 years apart instead of the 11 it was in the actual series

Which characters?

numair and daine

did she? I thought Numair was in his thirties?

in the original series she said numair left carthak after his 21 birthday

if he was 24 when they hooked up it's not quite as dramatic.
Huh.

he returned in emperor mage after 7 years when daine is 15 and he is 28

well mathmatically he would 28

Huh...

tammy has number dyslexia which i forget the proper name for

dyscalcula?

yeah

...something like that lol?

but the math in the other books is a consist at 11/12 years apart

but now on her official timeline and in the newer books they;ve changed it to seven with him running from carthay at 17

I see! Huh, I haven't really been keeping up.

yeah im really wanting to app numair somewhere so i was doing all this math and it gets very screwy

well that means I'll probably like his second book better lol, I felt like there wasn't enough conflict for me but he's coming up on that point by the end.

omg dont get me started. so fascinating that the ONE time tammy writes a male lead in her tortall series (briar of course shes written before but thats in emelan) he's the most PASSIVE FUCKING CHARACTER EVER

agh god yeah

and like i get why and i even kind of like having such a passive male protoganist like its honestly kind of fucking cute to me but alanna and daine and kel never let things just happen to them or not do something if they thought something was wrong

Yes!

but aram just is so shy and terrified of loosing his only friends

that he just never fucking says anything to them

also I was kinda annoyed that in Emperor Mage Varice complains about Numair wanting her to do more dramatic things with magic and in Tempests and Slaughter someone tells her that and he's indignant for her.

he is indignant for her but thats because he is thinking from how he would feel if it were said to him

some narration about him Not Getting It and agreeing with those people even just in his head would have added at least some inner conflict, you know?

/nods

he doesnt actually consider varice's feeling

which i think is a point that will come up later because they are both young and likely each other's first real relationship so

there's bound to be those slights on both sides

I hope so.

i think it will def come up in the next book and i BELIEVE he will start being more vocal with ozorne at least i hope so

i mean he cant get banished without actually telling ozorne he disagrees right

I was so disappointed in that book! The title promised so much carnage and drama and in the book this is just sequestered in little segments buffered by endless Good At School And Foreshadowing Fallout stuff.

god im just so excited to see this friend group torn apart

lol maybe he just has something to do with a sirajit

i can very easily see that happening. it pissed me off that when ozorne was such a dick to the pastry seller varice was just like "DONT DO THAT CANT YOU SEE IT UPSETS HIM"

and im like OKAY YEAH BUT CAN WE POINT OUT HOW FUCKING UNWARRANTED IT WAS like

yeah! yeah.

varice common

show you have at least some god damn decency here besides just making everyone play nice

even with the gladiator fights she didnt care about profitting off the gladiators deaths by gambling

even though she knew arram hated the arenea

like does she just think he has a weak constitution

Absolutely! He's like oh she's so nice for holding back her attention to help distract me.

aram just needs to wake up

hes an idealist and he thinks his friends all have the same opinions as him even when their actions contradict that

i tihink realizing that isnt the case is going to be the start of his problems with ozorne specifically

I did kinda like that throughout the book you see Slavery Is Bad And Here's Why whenever he's off the school grounds but at the end of the book he doesn't know how he feels about it.

or until the end.

he's only 13 when the book ends and he grows up friends with very privelleged people

i can understand why he wouldnt have really thought about it at all until he helps heal during the arena fightd

yeah, this was kinda Beka's problem too - believing her partners were just as good and idealistic as her, which is why I'm one of the people who doesn't object to Mastiff.

i didnt read the beka series

it does help that the university employs servants instead of slaves

i didnt enjoy the first book

its on my reread list though

i was listening to the audio books first chapter and i actually enjoyed it

I love the Beka series but it's kinda uneven so, ymmv!

though every time she calls breasts "peaches" im just like CAN YOU NOT PLEASE

i dunno why that always really irritated me

loool yeah luckily it only happens like... three times?
It's historical slang but some works better than others.

like tbh I really like "mot" for "woman" and "cove" for man and I don't know why.

it just feels like

f you cant even say what they are in your own diary

i dunno. like YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON WHO WILL SEE THIS

maybe it's just my old linguistic complaint that "man" used to mean "human" and there were male humans "wermen" and female humans "wifman" and I don't like some of the shift.

just call them breasts!

yeah she uses "it hurt like a pinch in the peach" once and that at least has alliteration.

but all the more physical uses...

...tbh I also feel like varice's power level and general importance in t&s is much boosted over what it was in The Immortals, maybe just so there'd be a female main character.

i think she made a lot of changes like that, and some she didnt. like i was surprised chioke was mentioned at all in emperor mage. he certainly doesnt say anything, but his name comes up at least 3 times!

Yeah... red Gift, that's most of what I remember about him.

so it makes sense expanding on things, esp given how short emperor mage was. It just seemed odd that a mage now said to be on Ozorne's level has such a small role in her original appearance.

I guess that's her "smooth everything over, be nice and get along" characterization again, she wouldn't go against him.