The past twenty-four hours have been a perfect example, to me, of what is wrong in the body politic today, and that goes for both sides- since, as you might guess, I get to hear both sides of it.

It's bad. And the aggravating triumphalism/grievance-mongering only makes it worse.

Since, if I may remind all of you, it wasn't that long ago when I was inundated with garment-rending and ash-dumping here and triumphalism on the other side, and now it's reversed. Soon the process will start

all over again, and nothing will have changed.

No, I believe it's problematic for people to judge what is right or wrong depending on whether the person agrees with them or not.

I.E. The implication being that one, oneself, is right, and that those who disagree with one are de facto wrong.

Let's give an example.

I believe X.

You believe Y.

X is incorrect, Y is true.

You believe that I am wrong, not because I believe X, but because I don't agree with you.

THAT is the problem I refer to.

(Or, to phrase it more precisely, not because X is incorrect, but because I don't believe you.)

And... no, trust me on this, it happens frequently.

I think it really depends on what X and Y are

context is important

Quite the contrary, I see frequently people saying, or believing, that "Because you are _, you must be wrong." Stated in various stages and ways, but nevertheless, with that inherent mindset.

oftentimes the argument isn't about X and Y at all, like you said, but that's because X and Y are very loaded subjects that have socialcontext attached

And I do not believe that's okay, because if it's a disagreement over positions, then something can be done. But when one refuses to accept the notion that one might be wrong, that's... problematic.

... My grandma does this

husbando: Often I'll agree with you, but honestly, it can happen in the most ridiculous of ways, and in the most absurd of bifurcations.

Where usually she's wrong, or only slightly right. BUT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH HER, SO YOU ARE WRONG. even if you can cite things for why you are right.

poppyflails: Yet that doesn't happen as often as one would like, especially on the 'net where one's own tribe is seen as right (and by extension, oneself, or vice versa) and others are automatically deemed

wrong.

Pft, heavens, if only it were one issue.

also, what you're saying here ("People dislike me not because I believe X, but because I don't believe what they believe in!") has been used to shut down arguments for a long time

not saying you're doing it here, but the idea itself has a nasty past

husbando: Right, exactly. But not examining the baggage that goes with it is part of the problem. And that's kind of the thing- it happens a lot, and it's never a good thing.

RadiantWingedOne: I know exactly what you mean, seriously. D: Sorry she's like that.

Anyway, I'm back to work, so I'll see you all later.

husbando: Thinking more about it, I think you hit on what bugs me so much about it- the fact that it does shut down arguments. Which then leads to all kinds of problems as it progresses on.

Needless to say, it's something that I struggle with too. massages temples But... seeing it in myself and the damage it does, I definitely want to at least point out the problem with it.