A question to RowanD (or anyone else): Is this "Integral Art" he brings up an actual movement or just something he came up with?

Oh good, something arty to read during my emo moment, lol.. Let me see.. I've never heard of it

I figure most of the article will be old hat to ya

Ok, I scanned it admittedly. But he sounds like what I call a phrase-coiner... Artists who coin phrases to somehow try and legitimise what

They do, we know one of those in SL but the question of art after Pomo is an interesting one, and tonight I have been blown away by

Thomas Heatherwick, who does it all. More and more I am gravitating towards the people who embrace multiplicity in their work, you can't pin

what do you mean by multiplicity?

Them down. They are artists, designers, architects, fashion designers, engineers... This is of course not new, Bernini did this as did so

Many others. And this isn't certainly the only legit way to work. I'm just thinking about it tonight

Multiple disciplines... You do it Scott.. Many SL artists do by being virtual pioneers.

ahh makes sense..thanks

Though the point I found interesting was that he says postmodernism took art to the point where everything was an inside joke

it was all irony and no aesthetics

I would get the sense the people you refer to take pride in the various crafts

and not get hung up on theory

Nice article he makes a lot of excellent points. I think most of us who come to art AS artists come originally WITHOUT the postmodern

point of view. And although we understand it and even appreciate it in many cases, we realize that is NOT all there is that deserves the

label of 'art'.

Sure, culture is relative and therefore 'beauty' is relative. But that doesn't mean that we don't understand the concept of it. We are

part of our cultures whatever they may be and even understanding that there is inifinite possibility in standards of 'beauty', we are able

to put forth our OWN standard and let the chips fall where they may. We really don't give a shit what the self appointed critics say,

what we care about is if we have hit a note for whoever happens to be the viewer of our art.

I've always been interested to note that really talented artists actually do care what critics say, or rather, they are happy to engage

with people who write about art and like to have discourse with them. The majority of artists who have a stick up their ass about 'critics'

often make shit art. Go figure. It is also interesting to me that all the very best art historians, writers, etc. that I know also practice

art in some way themselves, and have been trained in it. Which also makes the whole 'I don't give a crap what they say' thing kind of dumb.

But anyway, Scotti, it's an interesting article... I'm note sure all pomo threw away aesthetics, but it was perhaps not as traditional...

Ruskin thought Whistler threw away aesthetics, after all. I can think of several typically Pomo artists who made gorgeous work, that wasn't

ironic. I think its just that anything goes, and that means there is a LOT of garbage out there. As we know

ad hominem statements about artists don't really constitute any actual type of rational argument. Just sayin'

I notice you have trouble understanding that the great majority of artists out there don't pay attention to the random musings of critics.

Let me assure you that this is the case in my experience. This isn't some random thing that only 'shit' artists do.....

Scarp forgot the smiley face.

that popcorn emote

if Dirk also has wine

opens a bottle and pours some for nickolamartynov

RowanD I agree about there being PoMo artists that didn't throw out aesthetics, but I do agree with him that aesthetics took a backseat

to the conceptual

ScarpGodenot: I have no doubt whatsoever that is the case in your experience.

ScottiusPolke: I think that is a fair point. I have some local friends who are incredible figurative painters, and they have been

Incredibly marginalised in the face of more conceptual (and in some cases Turner prize-winning) local artists. It is a shame.

RowanD: yeah to be honest, I don't bother entering certain art competitions, because I know that's exactly what they want.

I do think we are experiencing a shift there, however... I am seeing more and more figural, narrative work gain agency.