MrJoeJon wonders
14 years ago
do cells make personal choices?
latest #37
MrJoeJon
14 years ago
if so, does that mean we have no free will?
Redarts
14 years ago
Cell just respond to their environment, but that does not mean we have free will.
Redarts
14 years ago
You could take it back even further and say that all matter is just resounding to the beginning state of the universe.
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DerekD says
14 years ago
Well, that's true unless you take into account quantum physics.
DerekD says
14 years ago
Truly, there is no such thing as free will in the multi-verse, but because the path of an electron is "random" there is such a thing as
DerekD says
14 years ago
random circumstance in each individual dimension.
DerekD says
14 years ago
Collapse those eigenstates, you tiny negatively-charged fuckers!
DerekD says
14 years ago
So, about individual cells... random shit will happen to them, so they are adrift in the sea of possibility like the rest of everything.
DerekD says
14 years ago
But unless they are networked together into a larger organism that has a nervous system to "decide" with, they have no free will.
Redarts
14 years ago
You seem to be under the impression that the quantum universe effects the macro universe but their is no evidence for that as of yet.
MrJoeJon
14 years ago
same thing for a human
MrJoeJon
14 years ago
we die quickly with out earth.
Redarts
14 years ago
We evolved to live on earth.
MrJoeJon
14 years ago
and the cells inside us evolved inside us.
DerekD says
14 years ago
I think saying that the quantum universe doesn't affect the macro universe is like creationists differentiating between micro and
DerekD says
14 years ago
macro evolution.
Redarts
14 years ago
Not at all, I am confident the quantum does effect the macro but their is no evidence for it.
Redarts
14 years ago
With evolution their are mountains of evidence.
DerekD says
14 years ago
I think the evidence pointing to the fact that you cannot record the location of an electron without changing it help with this argument.
Redarts
14 years ago
How so? All I am saying is that as of this moment we as humans have not found a direct link for the quantum to the macro.
DerekD says
14 years ago
By recording the location of an electron, you collapse it's wave function, making it choose a particular position to inhabit.
DerekD says
14 years ago
Before it's recorded, the probability of it being in certain positions of it's orbit are equal.
DerekD says
14 years ago
It does not have a fixed position at any given time unless observed, which means that viewing it acts as a randomizing function.
DerekD says
14 years ago
This demonstrates that individual atoms in the universe are not "fixed" into any single course of action.
DerekD says
14 years ago
Does this translate into a "macro" world? How could it not? Everything is composed of atoms.
Redarts
14 years ago
Not so, the way in witch you measure the atom is what effects it.
Redarts
14 years ago
We can make some quantum events act in a certain way but we do not know if the quantum world effects the macro.
Redarts
14 years ago
Or it might be better to say assuming that the quantum world effect the macro world we do not know how.
DerekD says
14 years ago
You can get strange effects when you do things like compress hydrogen in a tank. The orbits of the H electrons do funny things.
DerekD says
14 years ago
They actually settle into semi-stable orbits, like faux-ionic bonds when you press enough of them together. Liquid H is crazy stuff.
DerekD says
14 years ago
I guess I agree that there is no direct evidence that quantum changes affect the larger world...
DerekD says
14 years ago
But they are the effects of sub-atomic particles, which is what everything is made of, so thus part of the world.
DerekD says
14 years ago
I guess what I'm meaning to say is that I think there is an artificial barrier there.
Redarts
14 years ago
I think it's just an unknown unknown as of right now.
DerekD says
14 years ago
Particle physics is awesome. It's a neat area where chemistry and physics interact.
Redarts
14 years ago
It's like a Recces peanut butter cup.
DerekD says
14 years ago
Hey, you got your chemistry in my physics!
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