seuil shares 春天讀書會/愚人節亂亂毒書會－『監視與懲罰』（四）：溫和的懲罰 i383.photobucket.com/alb... 面對惱人的疑難雜症，難道只有一種藥到病除的妙方嗎？當然不是！然而最後的結果，卻 - #4tay5d - Plurk

seuil shares

14 years ago

春天讀書會/愚人節亂亂毒書會－『監視與懲罰』（四）：溫和的懲罰 i383.photobucket.com/alb... 面對惱人的疑難雜症，難道只有一種藥到病除的妙方嗎？當然不是！然而最後的結果，卻很吊詭的，仍然只存在著一種解藥，它，就是：監獄！

seuil says

14 years ago

本章節思考的焦點問題如下，請參考：

seuil says

14 years ago

1.找出對應罪行的懲罰方式，是為了能夠打消犯罪的念頭；於是刑罰變成是阻礙犯罪的象徵，不再像舊制一樣，是一種報復的標誌。因此這裡的問題便是：什麼是十八世紀改革者－啓蒙思想家的理想方針？

seuil says

14 years ago

即什麼是文本中，Michel Foucault 筆下與意識形態/符號技術有關的六個原則？

立即下載

seuil says

14 years ago

2. 舊制中所謂“監獄”的角色/功能是什麼？而新制中改革者－啓蒙學者們，其意圖賦予“監獄”的新角色/功能，又是什麼？

seuil says

14 years ago

3. 一般而言，重視罪犯再教育制度的改革者－啓蒙學者們，對於“監獄”持較排斥的態度。

seuil says

14 years ago

然而這些思想家參考的實例，卻又是成立在1600-1800之間，如荷蘭的阿姆斯特丹，比利時的Gand，英格蘭的Gloucester，以及美國的費城等城市，以再教育為目的的“監禁中心”。

seuil says

14 years ago

因此我們要問：**監獄**，是如何逐漸成為新的刑罰制度的一部分，且最重要的部份的呢？

seuil says

14 years ago

4. 最後一個問題，也是本章節的結語提問。

seuil says

14 years ago

即十八世紀末，舊君主極權懲罰體制，以及與改革者本身思想相關的符號技術體制，加上監獄制度，這三種既存與發展中的懲罰制度，各自代表什麼意涵呢？

seuil says

14 years ago

Brie says

14 years ago

布里的第四次口供 ~~!

Brie says

14 years ago

參考資料: A criminology and deviancy theory history timeline

Brie says

14 years ago

Devil's Island 參考電影一

Brie says

14 years ago

i383.photobucket.com/alb... Devils island

Brie says

14 years ago

Papillon 參考電影二之一

Brie says

14 years ago

Papillon - Ending 參考電影二之二

Brie says

14 years ago

...

...

Brie says

14 years ago

Megadeth - Devils Island (Rock in Rio, 1991) 提神用 ....

Brie says

14 years ago

...

...

seuil says

14 years ago

只認識那兩個大明星，電影沒看過....

seuil says

14 years ago

是說蝴蝶....

seuil says

14 years ago

BrieCheng: ”布里對於權力結構越來越有感覺/ 發現自己也監禁在共犯結構之內 .“ 恭喜恭喜！幫兇和囚犯是你我共同的角色啊！

Brie says

14 years ago

按照作息時間表偶應該明早再來 ~

(beer ~ beer ~ i'm coming ~)

Brie says

14 years ago

(So many Qs ... ... ...)

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

seuil says

14 years ago

我的家人在這首歌裡耶！分享...

seuil says

14 years ago

**The penitentiary was first opened by Emperor Napoleon III's government in 1852,

seuil says

14 years ago

and （Devil's Island） became one of the most infamous prisons in history....（wiki）這個魔鬼島是法國十九世紀的監獄島...最有名的政治犯，就是小說家Zola為他的冤獄控訴的軍官：Dreyfus

seuil says

14 years ago

jeagle: 你還沒睡??

（我的文被你截斷了。

）

seuil says

14 years ago

jeagle: 最可愛的那兩個....

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

((不敢回應了.....

→還是回了.....

seuil says

14 years ago

（其實這一個章節，MF筆下，真正的**監獄**還沒有成型...

）

seuil says

14 years ago

jeagle: 為什麼不敢？

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

截斷文章了.....

seuil says

14 years ago

jeagle: 沒關係啊！看得出來的...

（天音：你實在太嚴肅了啊！唉！）

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

seuil says

14 years ago

jeagle: 台灣幾點了？你真的考試都結束了?

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

3:38am

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

明天下午要上課，星期六有考試~

seuil says

14 years ago

jeagle: 宿舍的朋友們，還是熱鬧在談笑嗎？

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

另一間應該都睡了

~

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

我們這間兩個用電腦，一個上床中，一個睡著了~

L'Étranger. says

14 years ago

睡了

seuil says

14 years ago

jeagle: 我待會會噗Michel Foucault的（英文）文摘，等你考完試再看看能不能把中文的部份也貼出來好嗎？

seuil says

14 years ago

（jeagle: 你好貼心啊！把截斷文字的噗刪了！而我也沒力氣噗英文文摘了。慢慢來吧。....）

14 years ago

seuil早安

qapan says

14 years ago

seuil: 午安...

Brie says

14 years ago

毒書會的解藥: The Mind Is Its Own Beautiful Prisoner --- e. e. cummings

Brie says

14 years ago

...

Brie says

14 years ago

關於 Rasphuis of Amsterdam 是 Gravensteen 城堡的一部分, 功能是銼木 ~

Brie says

14 years ago

... 伯爵城堡（荷蘭文：Gravensteen）是一座位於荷蘭南荷蘭省萊頓的古蹟。 ... 始建於13世紀早期。

Brie says

14 years ago

起初它是荷蘭伯爵（de graven van Holland）的私人監獄， ... 1463年，好人菲利普（Filips de Goede）將該房產售予萊頓市。

Brie says

14 years ago

此後它便成為萊茵蘭的監獄（gevangenis voor Rijnland）以及市立監獄（stedelijke gevangenis）。

Brie says

14 years ago

死刑（通常為斬首）此後即在該建筑前環水的空地上舉行。1556年，該建築擴建至先前的一片空地上。

Brie says

14 years ago

1598年該監獄加了律獄（tuchthuis） www.uoregon.edu/~dluebke...

Brie says

14 years ago

1655年則加了紡織監獄（spinhuis）及銼木監獄（rasphuis）。

Brie says

14 years ago

...

Brie says

14 years ago

The Rasphuis was founded after the torture of 16 year-old assistant tailor Evert Jansz.

Brie says

14 years ago

Jansz confessed, as a result of the torture, to theft on two occasions from his boss.

Brie says

14 years ago

The usual punishment for this was public flogging,

Brie says

14 years ago

but the city council decided to try to rehabilitate Fransz, who was from a good background.

Brie says

14 years ago

Under the influence of Dirck Volkertszoon Coornhert and C.P. Hooft

Brie says

14 years ago

the city decided, on 19 June 1589, to build a prison.

Brie says

14 years ago

Shortly after the opening, Jansz was sentenced to a light beating and forced labour; he never took the rasp.

Brie says

14 years ago

...

Brie says

14 years ago

The founding of the Rasphuis signified a sea-change in Dutch correctional thinking.

Brie says

14 years ago

Until then it was universally believed that criminals needed to be punished.

Brie says

14 years ago

In the Rasphuis, the effort was made to instill a sense of order and duty into the young men.

Brie says

14 years ago

The Rasphuis was thus intended as an institute for rehabilitation.

Brie says

14 years ago

Over the entrance gate, which still stands, is the inscription ... 'Wild beasts must be tamed by men'.

Brie says

14 years ago

Those who chose not to work, were locked into a cellar, which could then be filled with water.

Brie says

14 years ago

The prisoner was provided with a handpump, and as such could choose to pump or drown.

Brie says

14 years ago

Within a few years, however, the Rasphuis began to be exploited as a source of cheap labour

Brie says

14 years ago

... and the rehabilitation goals envisaged by the founders were lost.

Brie says

14 years ago

More and more adults were incarcerated in the Rasphuis.

Brie says

14 years ago

A secret section was created where families could lock up uncontrollable or ... crazy relatives, at their own cost.

Brie says

14 years ago

At a fee, the Rasphuis could be visited,

Brie says

14 years ago

for example by families wishing to let their children see what would become of them if they were not well-behaved.

Brie says

14 years ago

.. .. ..

Brie says

14 years ago

During the French occupation of the Netherlands the cities lost their right to impose monopolies and this monopoly too, came to an end.

Brie says

14 years ago

In 1815 the Rasphuis was closed.

Brie says

14 years ago

... ...

Brie says

14 years ago

司法女神的眼睛是矇住的 ~

Brie says

14 years ago

司法的良心是什麼 ? 還是它毋需良心 ? ...

Brie says

14 years ago

...

qapan says

14 years ago

為什麼要矇眼? 或許是因為司法女神的眼睛會說話, 毋需動口...

qapan says

14 years ago

BrieCheng :於是我從銼木(？)一路追尋到Wiki... (多謝Yahoo字典)

Allen says

14 years ago

晚安呀~

seuil says

14 years ago

BrieCheng: 太感謝阿姆斯特丹這個Rasphuis的說明和摘錄了！

seuil says

14 years ago

荷語的huis，就是house，ras是樹木的一種，Rasphuis本身並無監獄的意思。監禁對象不是重罪犯人，而是年輕的輕罪犯。（Brie在中文部份提到的死刑是在該監禁中心之前。）

seuil says

14 years ago

Rasphuis當然也是監獄，不過還是與現在“監獄”的概念不一樣。在本書裡提到的其他類似行為矯正監禁中心，MF筆下稱之為Maison de force ，字面上可以譯成：強制監禁中心。荷蘭這個建造於十六世紀（1596），歷史最久遠。

seuil says

14 years ago

其他英格蘭，美國與比利時的例子，都在十八世紀中葉之後才成立的。法國在同時並不存在類似的監禁中心。

seuil says

14 years ago

以上，在於說明與比較MF文本中，什麼是“監獄”所指涉的意義。年代很重要，請參考。

seuil says

14 years ago

BrieCheng: 你在轉眼睛的那句：The Rasphuis was thus intended as an institute for rehabilitation. 我認為這才是啓蒙學者反對監獄卻又以Rasphuis為例，思考新penal system的原因。

Brie says

14 years ago

(Nothing else could be figured then ...)

seuil says

14 years ago

qapan: 噗文這張圖就是Rasphuis，是男監禁中心，另有spinhuis，是女監禁中心。Brie翻成“銼木監獄”與“紡織監獄”。而他們可以說是現代**監獄**的祖師爺哪！真好，這回你也追到wiki了，哈哈。不過Brie幾乎都摘下了啊！

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: 哇！你還是都沒睡覺嗎？我很擔心將會有老花眼，你也多多保重啊！請參考以下影片。

seuil says

14 years ago

july7: 早安！可以考慮作一節 Dance Fitness

Brie says

14 years ago

i383.photobucket.com/alb... Isolation is the first step to supervise, to intervene, to subject ...

(costly though ...)

seuil says

14 years ago

BrieCheng: e.e.cummings那首詩，哇！很情色啊！越讀越喜歡...謝謝喔！（天音：.......解藥........

）

Brie says

14 years ago

Sooner or later, budget becomes the only concern ? Death penalty is cheaper ? Crime can never be compensated ?

Brie says

14 years ago

http://i383.photobucket....

(What the Enlightenment has left us now ? ...)

seuil says

14 years ago

再註：前面寫到Rasphuis－“建造於十六世紀末（1596），歷史最久遠。” 補充說明一下，是現代監獄的雛形（祖師爺）Rasphuis之建立，其實跟荷蘭是全世界資本主義最早成型的國家（還有UK），有著密切的關係。

Brie says

14 years ago

Life imprisonment ~

seuil says

14 years ago

晚安！先去睡覺...

Brie says

14 years ago

is the rescue ~

Brie says

14 years ago

(Why not let death penalty replaced by sleeping ...)

qapan says

14 years ago

BreiCheng :除非是讓他一覺醒不起來...

Allen says

14 years ago

晚安~

Brie says

14 years ago

arliquidodois.blogs.sapo... Prison & Prisoner ~

Sovy 2B shares

14 years ago

www.criminocorpus.cnrs.f...

14 years ago

seuil: A chronology of prison system in France from 1656 to 1827.

seuil says

14 years ago

BrieCheng: “Why not let death penalty replaced by sleeping ...”，可以再說清楚一點嗎？

seuil says

14 years ago

qapan: 我想Brie的意思當然就是要讓死刑犯一睡不醒，不然這個提議就很奇怪了！我想他是在計算社會成本吧！

又你可以從國家暴力，結論到死刑犯比人權被侵犯的無辜民眾少，這才是讓我佩服到想一睡不醒啊！哈哈！

seuil says

14 years ago

Yves30:Tks for CNRS's reference.

seuil says

14 years ago

Bastille was already one of the national prisons before 1667，could you compare its status with Rasphuis' ?

14 years ago

seuil: Bastille as a prison dates from Richelieu (~1620). It was one of the principal prisons for detaining "VIP"s by order of the king

14 years ago

called "lettres de cachet" without any judgment. Moreover Bastille was an imposing fortress, marking the king's authority in Paris

14 years ago

There were symbolic reasons for the "Prise de la Bastille" in 1789, although the real reasons were the storage of powder and cannons...

14 years ago

See fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba...

seuil says

14 years ago

Yves30: So, Bastille is quite different from the conception of the Enlightment's reformers about the so-called "prison“, according to MF ?

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: 午安！看到你給馬統打100分了！

14 years ago

seuil: Yes, absolutely. Bastille was only a place of detention, either pending trial or for opponents to the king,...

14 years ago

whereas Rasphuis, as well as its Gand, UK and US imitators, were "reform houses" through labour, generally for poor people

14 years ago

convicted of minor crimes, or begging, etc..., the idea being tranforming them into honest craftsmen or entrepreneurs

seuil says

14 years ago

Yves30: Would you say the function of this kind of "Force House" like Rasphuis is relatively more so-called economic

seuil says

14 years ago

even through the old penal system, or you just mean the social context in Netherlands at that time was more capitalist ?

14 years ago

I think the Rasphuis belongs to a new context, both intellectual (Amsterdam was more liberal) and economic (birth of modern capitalism).

Allen says

14 years ago

晚安(台灣時間)~ 美女

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: 三次晚安啦！帥哥！

Allen says

14 years ago

seuil: 昨天這陣子好嗎 ? 還是有想到妳咧 ~

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: 哇！謝謝你有想我，有空也要想一下Michel Foucault啊！

以及作作上面那個眼睛體操....嘿！馬統與小英辯論跑場喔！

seuil says

14 years ago

Yves30: Pls explain more about what "liberal " is. Is it the French or English signification？

seuil says

14 years ago

（ohwellvencent: 離題應景一下，這裡小英有把開始的放水追回來..台灣產業結構，東協不是對手！...

）

Allen says

14 years ago

seuil: 妳真好 ~

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: 我真怕快要老花眼了。

.....台灣在中國最大的競爭者是日本和韓國，什麼狗屎的東協加一啊?還零關稅?對這位馬統一句話啦，就是把台灣人當下等人，非常明顯。這是一場左右之辯，而且我非常確定馬統是化過妝的極右派!!!!!

seuil says

14 years ago

小英：馬統先生，回答我回答我！

Allen says

14 years ago

seuil: 最讓人產生極為深刻印象的是綠卡不用自然或自動地生效 !

我隱約感覺他這是怕美國掀他底牌便靠到中國去但也消極的購買武器美國也不希望他會將由來已久台美軍事機密資訊散佈(現在應該已改變原有資訊減少傷害) 所以不掀 ! 他 ! 真爛~

14 years ago

seuil: Here it's the English (American) meaning, about liberal political ideas. French "libéral" means conservative or "classical liberal"

14 years ago

which means, economic liberalism only or "market fundamentalism"

14 years ago

BrieCheng: Is "sleeping" the gentle way of death penalty ?

14 years ago

Besides, "gentle way" is the translation for "douceur" which also means "dessert" in French.

14 years ago

So, do you suggest that the last supper for a capital convict ends with a dessert containing a substance that lets sleeping forever ?

Brie says

14 years ago

2B or not 2B ...

14 years ago

BrieCheng: Surely, 2B

qapan says

14 years ago

seuil: 咦? 這裡講的是「溫和的懲罸」吧! 而國家暴力是另一層次, 跟主題應該無關...

seuil says

14 years ago

BrieCheng: 嘿會長！我好不容易才把Sovy2B誘惑來讀書會，你竟然劈頭就懷疑他的身份?....請你不要嚇走我們的訪客啊！

seuil says

14 years ago

qapan: 這裡連防老花眼的眼睛運動，十九世紀的監獄都在了，講點小英和馬統也很爽啊！何況國家暴力恰恰恰...好是啓蒙學者關心的，就別說Foucault了，怎麼跟主題無關呢？

Brie says

14 years ago

seuil: To be sleeping, or not to be ...

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: 綠卡的事情還有好戲在後頭的！而統媒一定會說他辯論得好啊讚啊！這些都不意外。話說我昨天很晚了，突然靈機一動開三十公里路跑出去喝啤酒，喝一種Leffe Ruby 櫻桃口味的啤酒，甜甜的，好喝。upload.wikimedia.org/wik...

Allen says

14 years ago

seuil: 三十公里 !!

辛苦妳了~

這酒會不會只適合女孩子喝

Allen says

14 years ago

seuil: 更正>>自動地生效 ! >>失效 !

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: 沒辦法，我是住在鄉下的村姑啊！那啤酒形象像是給女生喝的，男生也可以喝的吧！度數也有五度倒是。對了，水果不是櫻桃，而是小紅果子，以覆盆子為主。那張照片是wiki上的，完全是我那天喝的樣子。（杯子）。

Allen says

14 years ago

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: 其實我家冰箱就有一瓶750ml的Leffe Ruby，星晴天晚上我就是想出門去玩啦！應該說出門常常可以更專心作手上的事情。在家裡很容易分心。

Allen says

14 years ago

seuil: " Leffe Ruby " 沒聽過 ! 是很好的酒嗎 ?

seuil says

14 years ago

ohwellvencent: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le... 就是中古時期到今天，比利時僧侶釀的啤酒啊！台灣沒有嗎？