Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:25:51.000Z
OK talking about DQ game design and what it's doing beneath the hood a bit
latest #87
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:26:00.000Z
Dragon Quest is, mechanically, a pretty simple series
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:26:11.000Z
you have your Attack, you have Spells, you have Items
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:26:20.000Z
none of that is revolutionary
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Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:26:27.000Z
what it's really good at, in my opinion, is enemy design
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:26:32.000Z
like OK, let's hone in on what I mean
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:26:40.000Z
Dragon Quest 5, Castle Reinhardt catacombs
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:26:50.000Z
there are a number of enemies in the dungeon
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:27:21.000Z
Yetis, who usually just attack but occasionally do a roar that has a separately-rolled chance to stun every party member for a turn
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:27:38.000Z
Gonks, who sometimes attack, sometimes do nothing, sometimes lick your face for a guaranteed one-turn stun, and sometimes summon skeletons
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:28:05.000Z
Tortragons, who have very high physical defense, and occasionally waste turns using the guard command
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:28:32.000Z
what this diversity means is that each enemy - and each enemy group, because of how encounters work- okay let's get into that a bit
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:28:51.000Z
but each enemy and enemy group is, depending on their abilities and your circumstances, a different amount of dangerous
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:28:57.000Z
and figuring out that hierarchy is non-trivial
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:29:13.000Z
so sidebar, dragon quest encounters are formed of like 1-4 Groups of monsters
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:29:18.000Z
each group containing 1-8 monsters
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:29:27.000Z
and each group containing only one species of monster
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:29:38.000Z
so say you have the above sets of monsters
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:29:46.000Z
an encounter is one yeti, three gonks, and two tortragons
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:30:14.000Z
Quio has a very powerful single-target attack, and also is your healer and can do light magic damage to one group of enemies
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:30:43.000Z
Henry has a whip, which does less damage but hits an entire group of enemies, with descending damage as it moves left to right, and can cast Bang, which does moderate magic damage to all enemies but costs a lot of MP
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:30:55.000Z
Who do you attack first? What do you attack with?
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:31:06.000Z
It's not obvious!
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:31:21.000Z
The meat of the dungeon game is in figuring out which enemies are the most pain to kill and the most pain to leave alive
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:31:38.000Z
and forming an order for how you dismantle the group based on that to minimize MP expenditure
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:32:31.000Z
for the record: Henry casts Bang because it doubles the enemies he can hit and can OHKO a non-guarding Tortragon, Quio focuses on the Gonks because as slots in the enemy formation empty out they can summon skeletons in to replace them
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:33:07.000Z
it's a long sequence of prioritization decisions as you try and judge how to deal with each formation of enemies with minimal pain and resources burnt
Love Snake Kaja
2024-12-20T21:33:30.000Z
I'd probably go for the gonks first because they have the potential to make the encounter go out of hand with their summons and just pray the yeti doesn't do aoe stun. But it's a decision that takes some consideration, yeah.
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:33:32.000Z
and it means that your first dive into a dungeon is unlikely to be the last, because you don't know the enemy movesets or traits yet
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:33:58.000Z
so while you explore the dungeon spatially, you're also exploring it mechanically, and getting a feel for the priorities
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:34:22.000Z
if that sounds fun, play dragon quest
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:34:27.000Z
especially the older, meaner ones
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:35:27.000Z
these minks can hit the party with blinding sand to lower accuracy but these fish can cast AOE defense debuffs and my whip can only take out one group at a time
ғᴏxʏᴍᴏʀᴏɴ
2024-12-20T21:41:58.000Z
instructions unclear
zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:42:53.000Z
DQXI is a forgiving game
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-20T21:49:34.000Z
I feel like it's also worth noting Dragon Quest typically does NOT have full healing available before bosses, but DOES grant a full recovery on level up
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-20T21:49:39.000Z
Which is another part of the resource management
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:50:01.000Z
the full recover on level up is a fairly modern addition
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:50:05.000Z
at least as of 5, it's not there
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-20T21:50:24.000Z
ah right I'd forgotten earlier games didn't
連続犬
2024-12-20T21:58:17.000Z
Yeah I feel like that wasn't a thing until 8
連続犬
2024-12-20T21:58:49.000Z
but yeah, being able to deconstruct the various Types of enemies and the best way to defeat them is the fun in Dragon Quest encounters
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:59:10.000Z
and also is the evil of it
連続犬
2024-12-20T21:59:17.000Z
And sometimes that goes awry but in often comical situations
連続犬
2024-12-20T21:59:22.000Z
see: Muddy Hands
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T21:59:29.000Z
here's three enemies who can blind you, two who do huge damage, and four who can drain your MP
連続犬
2024-12-20T21:59:53.000Z
The key to understanding Dragon Quest encounters is, in my mind, two things
連続犬
2024-12-20T22:00:13.000Z
1: Every enemy has usually no more moves than your average Pokemon
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:00:34.000Z
(the answer is to obliterate the MP drainers at any cost. If one guy drains 10 MP, that's equivalent to taking two Healmores of damage)
連続犬
2024-12-20T22:00:56.000Z
2: Enemies are just, if not more MP-gated than you are, so sometimes "drain a monster's MP so they can't use their big spell that turbofucks you" is in fact not only a valuable but Vital strat
連続犬
2024-12-20T22:01:35.000Z
enemies do have resources and you CAN deprive them of it
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:02:19.000Z
similarly, sometimes if an enemy does a big move, that deprioritizes them, because now they're out of mp
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:04:33.000Z
OK side not but here's the weirdest fucking enemy ability in 5
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:04:40.000Z
so DQ5 has Strategies you can set for the party
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:04:52.000Z
Offensive, Normal, Defensive, Save MP, Use No MP, and Manual
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:05:01.000Z
of course you should always have it set on Manual
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:05:06.000Z
but there's an enemy in this tower with a spell
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:05:11.000Z
that changes your set strategy
連続犬
2024-12-20T22:12:45.000Z
Oh that's very mean and also weird
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:13:29.000Z
it's not as mean as it sounds, but also weirder than it sounds
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:13:31.000Z
because like
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:13:34.000Z
...you can just set it back
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-20T22:16:44.000Z
I love how Dragon Quest telegraphs that enemies have MP pools you can exploit with the early Imp enemies
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-20T22:16:55.000Z
Who attempt to cast Kaboom but don't have the MP for it and waste their turn
Princess Emily
2024-12-20T22:22:56.000Z
This makes me feel like, for DQV, you probably want to track individual enemy stamina/MP in order to get the proper DQ experience where enemies can just run out of MP for their skills LOL
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:23:20.000Z
maybe... but it's haaard
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:24:09.000Z
also Valor's Stamina availability is too balanced
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:24:22.000Z
maybe I can have some kind of special rules thing
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:24:50.000Z
where certain enemies have Costly moves, and you can use some kind of skill to drain their uses? or something
Princess Emily
2024-12-20T22:24:50.000Z
maybe big spells on rando encounter monsters just have ammo limits, though you'd still need to track the ammo
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:25:21.000Z
I should fuck around with making enemy design wackier in general
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:25:40.000Z
playing within the rules of the system is for rookie GMs
Princess Emily
2024-12-20T22:26:34.000Z
it's fun, the most memorable fights in my games tend to be the ones where I fuck around outside of the usual rules
連続犬
2024-12-20T22:31:44.000Z
Dragon Quest Valor should absolutely have Weird Enemy Design
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:32:10.000Z
instakills/disables, costly moves... I'll have to think of more
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:32:30.000Z
I'm considering an equipment system, but it'll depend on the party I end up with
連続犬
2024-12-20T22:32:46.000Z
the funniest thing about Dragon Quest Valor and messing with enemy design is there is one enemy you do not have to mess with
連続犬
2024-12-20T22:33:02.000Z
ironically, Dragons
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:33:04.000Z
like when I set up a whole system for buying weapons in FFAV, then the party I got had a legendary sword, a body-grafted blade, and a custom magitech gauntlet
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-20T22:53:45.000Z
Have you seen my Fire Emblem rules? You might be able to adapt them a bit for Dragon Quest
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-20T22:53:56.000Z
For what I did with the weapons
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:54:00.000Z
I have not
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-20T22:56:41.000Z
Since I had weapons that tagged with various properties
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T22:57:56.000Z
I'll look it over, at least
Princess Emily
2024-12-20T23:28:52.000Z
I mean, TrV's quartz system is kind of like equipment, and I think it's working p well
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T23:29:11.000Z
again, it will depend on the party's needs
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-20T23:29:25.000Z
I'm not gonna do an equipment system if 3/4ths of the party have bespoke plot weapons
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