Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:23:41.000Z
[dqv][valor] rambling about something I keep trying to do that isn't worth doing
latest #79
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:24:12.000Z
for me, part of the DQ Feel
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:24:26.000Z
is how the scale of numbers in the games remains consistent from DQ1 to DQ11
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:24:37.000Z
you always start with around 30 HP and end with around 300 HP
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Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:24:44.000Z
and a voice in my head keeps saying
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:24:59.000Z
hack valor to have a similar HP range for versimilitude
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:25:07.000Z
but the problems are manyfold
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:25:16.000Z
one is that this is a lot of work
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:25:32.000Z
everything that affects damage or HP or maybe even ST needs to be reworked
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:25:51.000Z
another is that this would make the numbers all jank
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:26:14.000Z
like if I reduced max HP by 60%, then suddenly different levels of Physical Attacker give different amounts of attack
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:26:16.000Z
et cetera
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:26:24.000Z
but the prime problem is that just
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:26:33.000Z
HP doesn't grow in Valor the same way it grows in dragon quest
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:26:38.000Z
on multiple levels
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:26:49.000Z
a typical level 1 valor character has around 140 HP
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:26:56.000Z
a typical level 20 valor character has around 560 HP
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:27:09.000Z
that's an increase of x4, whereas dragon quest will see an increase of x10
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:27:20.000Z
so no matter how I rescale the numbers, it'll feel off either at low levels or at high levels
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:28:05.000Z
ultimately I'm just gonna deal with the HP scaling being different
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:30:20.000Z
if I scaled stats down to 25%, then you'd start with ~28 HP and end with ~140 HP... honestly that's not that far off-- dammit I'm doing it again!
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:30:26.000Z
I want the numbers to feel right!!!
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:31:48.000Z
if I do that then Physical Attacker adds 1.5 Attack + 0.75 per level!
ғᴏxʏᴍᴏʀᴏɴ
2024-12-19T17:34:25.000Z
at the risk of potentially saying something extremely stupid
ғᴏxʏᴍᴏʀᴏɴ
2024-12-19T17:35:12.000Z
what if, instead of actually scaling the stats, you kept all the backend math the same, but had a 'divide numbers by 4' thing solely for the display options
ғᴏxʏᴍᴏʀᴏɴ
2024-12-19T17:35:48.000Z
so like. if something has 100 hp, they have 100 hp but it shows 25
or if something does 20 damage, it does 20, but shows that it did 5
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:36:24.000Z
My gut is that it wouldn't work for a dozen reasons but I guess it's possible that it could
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:36:47.000Z
just let an attack sometimes do 15 damage and sometimes do 16 damage when the stats haven't changed...
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:36:54.000Z
also I don't think anyone but me cares about getting this right
RobotApocalypse
2024-12-19T17:38:10.000Z
you can just declare the rounding is always consistent, can't you? like damage always rounds down
RobotApocalypse
2024-12-19T17:38:36.000Z
i guess dice rolls are d6 so it's possible there'd still be variance
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:38:50.000Z
not if it's just a display mod
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:39:28.000Z
if I have 31 true HP and i take 3 damage, then my displayed HP goes from 8 to 7. If I have 32 true HP and I take 3 damage, then my displayed hp goes from 8 to 8.
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:40:07.000Z
if I'm actually modding all the numbers down, then always rounding down means some levels of skills like iron defense have literally no benefit
RobotApocalypse
2024-12-19T17:41:10.000Z
hm true. you'd want it rounding down for damage and up for basically everything else i think
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:41:32.000Z
then physical attacker sometimes has zero benefit
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:41:49.000Z
and iron defense still has no benefit every other level, but it's the other levles
RobotApocalypse
2024-12-19T17:42:11.000Z
is physical attacker a passive or an attack ability?
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:42:18.000Z
passive
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:42:39.000Z
it's +6 damage with physical attacks, then +3 when upgraded
RobotApocalypse
2024-12-19T17:42:41.000Z
i was including passives in the "everything else" - when i say damage i mean literally just the damage rolls
RobotApocalypse
2024-12-19T17:43:09.000Z
but i guess if it's added on the back-end while doing damage then it still applies so nm
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:43:31.000Z
the context you might be missing is that valor doesn't have variable damage
Master Chieve
2024-12-19T17:43:34.000Z
I’m on team “don’t worry about it at all”
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:43:39.000Z
if a technique does 47 damage, it does 47 damage
RobotApocalypse
2024-12-19T17:43:39.000Z
gotcha
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:43:51.000Z
I think team don't worry about it is the winner
RobotApocalypse
2024-12-19T17:43:59.000Z
yeah that sounds like the best option
Master Chieve
2024-12-19T17:44:33.000Z
But then im only a DQ fan via Adventures of Dai
Master Chieve
2024-12-19T17:44:58.000Z
Which obviously doesn’t have any damage numbers or hp numbers except for like one scene as a gag
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:46:02.000Z
the one thing that does have me considering valor alter
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:46:09.000Z
is having a basic attack
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:46:14.000Z
that feels very dragon quest
Master Chieve
2024-12-19T17:47:05.000Z
I’d be fine with Alter
Master Chieve
2024-12-19T17:47:17.000Z
Both Alter and Core have things to recommend them
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:47:22.000Z
not committing to either until I at least have a signup sheet
ғᴏxʏᴍᴏʀᴏɴ
2024-12-19T17:48:17.000Z
i think 'don't worry about it is the play, yeah
ғᴏxʏᴍᴏʀᴏɴ
2024-12-19T17:49:16.000Z
my big concern about alter is that i dont know if it has support for a summoner build but like
i can figure out other character ideas
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:49:37.000Z
see that's exactly why I'm not committing yet
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T17:49:42.000Z
I don't know the needs of the party
dragon time
2024-12-19T17:55:48.000Z
I'm also on don't worry about it but also basic attack sounds kinda fun
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T19:12:45.000Z
what I think WOULD be fun
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T19:12:51.000Z
would be to set up, via roll20's audio tools
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T19:12:53.000Z
knight of death
2024-12-19T19:14:58.000Z
idk, valor's health scaling actually seems similar to DQXI 's health scaling specifically for me
knight of death
2024-12-19T19:15:17.000Z
maybe they don't start in the same place but they end up about the same
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-19T19:24:20.000Z
DQ3 Remake's numbers are actually pretty Valor-similar, I know my Hero was pushing 500 health by the end of it
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-19T19:24:41.000Z
(I fed her every single seed I got which is probably part of it but the others had decent pools too due to all their reclassing)
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T19:24:47.000Z
I was around 250-350 with my party
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T19:24:56.000Z
but also like, we only very narrowly beat zoma
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-19T19:25:13.000Z
Yeah I was probably also a bit overleveled hahahaha
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T19:25:32.000Z
I just am always pining for the parts of rpgs where you do 4 damage and go "bruh"
AzureChrysanthemum
2024-12-19T19:25:35.000Z
And I went into the Remake end game which includes Xenlong and the extra bonus dungeon I ended up not doing because it sounded lame
Quinn Angstrom
2024-12-19T19:25:50.000Z
I have heard that the postgame content in the remake is bad
Doge-lover Joja
2024-12-19T20:28:57.000Z
part of the problem is two of the paths require specific weapon types to be equipped, otherwise you'll be nerfed badly
Doge-lover Joja
2024-12-19T20:30:07.000Z
two others are just completion checklists
Doge-lover Joja
2024-12-19T20:30:31.000Z
the last is you running around buying things in sets of four
Doge-lover Joja
2024-12-19T20:32:41.000Z
all this for a superboss
Doge-lover Joja
2024-12-19T20:32:57.000Z
which has no runbacks once you beat it
Doge-lover Joja
2024-12-19T20:33:48.000Z
You're better off playing a new game with a different party composition if you want to keep going with it
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