CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T03:25:31.000Z
saw this meme on tumblr. give me a character (from my muselist or just in general) and i will reimagine/recontextualize them as either a hero or a villain depending on what they are in canon
latest #82
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T03:26:22.000Z
... See the character I most associate with you already swerves wildly back and forth between the two, so uh-
BTW I’m Chai
2024-09-07T03:28:26.000Z
Erika. Gimme the take
chaos magic ☆
2024-09-07T03:33:47.000Z
raven
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CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T03:57:14.000Z
YonFellow: faith? i can do a heroic spin of her original heel turn and a villainous spin on her redemption
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T03:57:36.000Z
I was thinking Damian
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T03:57:44.000Z 2024-09-07T03:57:49.000Z
But I'd be down to hear Faith takes
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T03:58:10.000Z
oh damian is a pretty clear cut hero
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T03:58:24.000Z
just kind of a dick about it often
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T03:58:34.000Z
Is he? I thought he kept having murder impulses and sometimes actually acted on them
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:00:56.000Z
it's a nurture vs nature kind of thing. he was trained from birth to be a bloody tyrant and assassin who would force the world under his heel. so he has to unlearn all of that to become a hero, and whenever he acts on them it's universally against people that are at least joker level in terms of "how justifiable is it to leave this guy alive to begin with."
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:01:03.000Z
anyway i'll start with erika
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T04:02:06.000Z
(Not sure anybody is "joker level" except Joker in terms of sheer unrepentant and unrelenting desire to cause as much brutal and unrestrained violence as possible by any means necessary, but I get what you're saying)
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:04:43.000Z
chaiteacup:
Erika is the arrogant detective who arrives in the storm, exactly where she's needed when she's needed. She has her quirks, her faults, and she can be abrasive in the pursuit of truth and justice. Her battle against magic and the fallisies of magic is a simple matter of a pretty lie versus the ugly truth. The ugly truth is that these people are
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:06:21.000Z
dead, murdered at the hands of a deranged psychopath that has seen fit to trap them in a prison of magic where she can do as she pleases. It is the detective's job to break her free of that delusion, and allow them to pass into the next world, to reclaim the realm that she has taken for her own in the name of the heavenly court, and to bring peace to
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:07:57.000Z
the real victim who has had her pain overshadowed by this farce, her charge and partner, Ange Ushiromiya, the sole survivor of the family.
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:09:06.000Z
erika is kind of easy because her being a villain is in and of itself a subversion and in any other story the idea that the detective is the bad guy because she's not respectful to the serial killer's posthumous legacy would be a bit unginged
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:11:12.000Z
so erika being a kind of avenging angel for the victims left behind by this giant glorification of what amounts to a mass murder suicide works pretty easily, especially since she does have the authority of heaven and featherine behind her.
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:13:25.000Z
YonFellow: i can think of a bunch of them lol. even just in terms of comic books, he's only special because he's popular and he was made out to be some kind of cosmic god of death and destruction rather than an annoying serial killer with a clown motif. there's actually been several stories where joker sat on the edge of having a moment of clarity and
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:16:01.000Z
there are alternate universes in which the joker does actually kind of show repentance and try to change as a person. and there's a lot of canon storylines where he tries to stand up to the bigger bad out of bizarre and incomprehensible moral principles.
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:17:32.000Z
like after killing jason todd, joker kind of spirals as he realizes he's gone way too far and that there's no coming back for him after this
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T04:17:40.000Z
Huh. I mean I definitely think the weird reverence and elevation of Joker to any sort of cosmic significance (or even elevation to being, like, the other half to Batman's whole) is cringe trash, but when he's beating up Red Skull and all I can think is "Joker is one of the only people who genuinely can't claim moral superiority over a supernazi" it's like...
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T04:18:17.000Z
I've never liked the Joker, full disclosure, because almost every iteration of him his entire personality is just the words "FOR THE EVULZ"
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T04:18:24.000Z
It's so tedious
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:20:02.000Z
i mean i don't like him either
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:25:18.000Z
but part of that is also like... he's not any more evil than someone like brother blood or darkseid or trigon or black mask, and even more sympathetic characters (poison ivy, r'as al ghul, scarecrow) have at times had long term goals that were far worse than joker's endgoals which are always loose and largely revolve around batman killing him.
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T04:26:15.000Z
Eh. I just sort of chalk that up to "Joker wants anybody and everybody dead because it amuses him, he just lacks the focus and abilities to really get the job done like those other guys."
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T04:26:52.000Z
ANYWAY I'M SORRY I didn't mean to hijack your plurk I meant to hear Faith headcanons
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:31:11.000Z
I do think the joker can be entertaining and a useful villain with the caveat that both harley and batman have to be funnier than him
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T04:31:11.000Z
(agreeeed)
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:33:00.000Z
it also depends on which iteration you're talking about
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:33:32.000Z
my dream bruce batman pitch is that the joker forces him to do standup comedy in order to prevent a bomb going off or something and he crushes it
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:35:10.000Z
harley's canon introductory comic actually included joker getting salty because she was funnier than him and so he betrayed her and kicked her out
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:35:18.000Z
he's a good batman villain but he's not the embodiment of pure evil, he's just good for making deranged plots happen with some real horror beats thrown in for dissonance
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:35:43.000Z
yeah.
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:36:13.000Z
he's interesting bc he could be any guy, but also he's always wrong. anyway that's too much about the joker. love the jokester tho
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:36:32.000Z
the dark knight is shit
Yon Fellow
2024-09-07T04:37:35.000Z
The best iteration is the Jonkler because he dips his fries in ice creme. Nobody can comprehend a mind that twisted tbh.
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:37:48.000Z
he wants to watch the world burn and he thinks everyone else does too but he's wrong. god it's hard to stop talking about the joker I get it now
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:38:54.000Z
yeah i agree with that take lindsey
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:39:04.000Z
the entire point of the dark knight is that he's wrong, the real heart of the story is when the guy on the prison boat throws the bomb thing off the boat
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:40:30.000Z
ehh it's more common than you'd think. and like. as an example, trigon is a genocidal mass rapist
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:40:37.000Z
well darkseid
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:40:57.000Z
actually make darkseid a hero. antimatter darkseid
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:41:10.000Z
o7 on it boss
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:41:55.000Z
trigon is a teen titans villain. raven's dad. there's lots of other incredibly evil dc villains is my point. some of which damian killed or otherwise tormented
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:41:55.000Z
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:43:17.000Z
i don't really value motive tbh
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:49:18.000Z
yeah it's just like, the guys who killed the dead boy detectives had similar motivations and they were in one arc of sandman
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T04:50:41.000Z
dc is full of chaotic evil
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:52:28.000Z
mhm. listen i have to deal with comic fandom (made up of people who actively don't read the comics and just run off of assumptions made through fanfic and tumblr posts) and this is a subject that comes up A Lot
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:52:32.000Z
anyway
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T04:52:34.000Z
faith
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:01:54.000Z
YonFellow:
Faith is selected by a cabal of human supremisists to be The Slayer, an instrument used in a neverending war against the native denizens of the so-called human realm, creatures that have been referred to as Demons. She's a complicated girl with complicated feelings, a lot of rage and unaddressed trauma that makes her too unruly for the council
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:04:59.000Z
to control. Except there's another, much more suitable Slayer that everyone values more than her. It's the jealousy that condemns her more than anything, and the desire. While brutally dispatching the "demons" she accidentally slips up and kills a corrupt executive who was selling the resistance's information to the council. The council's latest puppet
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:06:29.000Z
Wesley, disavows her and brands her as a criminal. It's there that the underground demon resistance finds her. They created Sunnydale to be a safe haven for their kind, where they could live without harming anyone, and the humans have been wiping them out because they decided that the demons expressed emotions that were too ugly and incomprehensible, and so
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:07:57.000Z
they needed to be destroyed. Faith finds a father figure in the mayor, the face of Sunnydale who has put a lot of money, resources and effort into protecting the native population of the town and keeping the Slayers from destroying them just because of an ancient war that forced them into hiding. Faith starts working for the resistance as a proper agent.
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:10:07.000Z
She makes one last plea for Buffy to join her and Buffy says no, that she won't ever betray her mission like Faith has. The final battle between Faith and Buffy is this heartbreaking confrontation where Faith is trying to show Buffy that they're not that different and that she can be more than a weapon for the council's brutal suppression, and that vampires/
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:11:55.000Z
demons are people too, as evidenced by the fact that Buffy wants to save her vampire boyfriend, and Buffy finally realizes this just as it's too late. The council kills the Mayor and his organization, driving the demons into hiding, and Faith is dragged to prison where she's subject to brainwashing by Wesley and his vampire puppet. She breaks free briefly to
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:13:04.000Z
beat the shit out of Wesley in a righteous rage but eventually they used Angel's vampire powers on her and mind controlled her into going quietly where she could be reeducated into a perfect killing machine once more.
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:15:35.000Z
this one's a little more complicated because faith has a clear throughline with her actions and i wanted to make all of them justifiable somehow. the bodyswapping was another effort to reach out to and redeem buffy, the heroic pro bono law firm hired her to take down the human supremisists, etc.
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:20:10.000Z
odasaku: so funny thing about raven is that there have been multiple stories where she's been a "villain" because from the start, evil has been with her since she was born. so rather than a tragic hero tormented by inner demons (literal) and brainwashed by catholic guilt, i'm gonna go with a tragic villain tormented by inner demons (figurative) and
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:20:15.000Z
brainwashed by catholic guilt
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:22:48.000Z
Raven was the daughter of the ancient god Trigon, an entity of conflict and chaos, and she was told from a very young age that she was evil as a result, and that the only way to redeem herself was to sacrifice and bring about an apocalyptic battle that would allow the true god (which is i guess Azarath) to triumph over chaos and strife (and freedom).
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T05:26:22.000Z
dc was my high school fandom and it was rough
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T05:26:33.000Z
I can confidently say euron greyjoy is worse than the joker tho
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:30:37.000Z
(i would also say that)
weren't you seeing yourself out
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:36:08.000Z
Visions were sent to her from her religious order that demanded she infiltrate the Teen Titans and brainwash them to help her achieve her end. She followed them without question, and she set about infiltrating them. She used diplomacy to not show her hand and then mind controlled those who were too suspicious to go along with her, making them fall in love
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:38:30.000Z
with her (she did do that in canon but it's a lot more complicated and sympathetic). Over time, she began to genuinely care about all of them as friends, and they started instilling doubts in her when they encouraged her to express herself and her emotions. Little by little, she started opening up as the day of reckoning came closer, and her self control
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T05:39:19.000Z
GOD DC HAS ACTUALLY DONE THIS SO MANY TIMES
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T05:39:40.000Z
I'm having flashbacks of indigo in outsiders but that's original terra too isn't it
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:41:15.000Z
waned. It got so bad that she felt she couldn't contain her father's influence and she started having doubts and undoing the conditioning. In a panic she cuts herself off from them all, but not before her father is able to reach them and beg them to help her. They try reasoning with her but she's completely severed her emotional connection to them and she
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T05:42:07.000Z
what if the girl u like............was EVIL
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:44:05.000Z
mind controls them all into puppets, summoning and killing her father, bringing about a battle where the world would either become a shallow utopia with no conflict, no variety, just regimented order without thought, or a world of nothing but chaos and destruction. The heroes reach her at the last minute and she stops the battle, sacrificing herself to save
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:44:17.000Z
her father who is a really nice guy after all apparently.
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:47:35.000Z
i will get to damian and darkseid in a bit. damian has an easy route (the one that's semi discussed in canon/fanon) and a more complex route, while darkseid i need to think about
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T05:48:32.000Z
if anyone can do it!!!!
CERTAINTY
2024-09-07T05:49:21.000Z
bitterends: i'd say beast boy be like but i hate bbrae, so in my heart of hearts it'd be terra be like, because she too has had her morality swapped
sadgirl spring
2024-09-07T05:52:22.000Z
thinking about the cartoon, realizing it's dcau shiera too lmao. at least she gets a real redemption arc.........
chaos magic ☆
2024-09-07T14:36:50.000Z
oh raven.... lays down
CERTAINTY
2024-09-08T09:11:09.000Z
yeahhh
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