Socaldodgerfan
thinks
Barack Obama showed his true colors when he implied that the Federal government should take over oil companies
Zak Nicola
wonders
if they got to him too.
TinyShrimp
is
NOT and Obama fan
Socaldodgerfan
thinks
this is a communists line of thinking(refering to my statement not zak's)
KSan
says
I really hate the idea of Obama in office, but I just can't stomach another term of the Bush administration. Part of me believes anything
KSan
says
would be better than McCain. Sigh. I really thought the dems would have a viable candidate. I liked Hilary, but Gore should have run.
Socaldodgerfan
says
i agree with that, they both are bad candidates, i think bush was an aberration of republican ideals
Socaldodgerfan
says
i dont think he represents the party as a whole, i would have voted for gore
Bush is the anti-christ...
Obama is changing colors (no pun intended) quickly and it scares me
as much as it will get me condemned... I'm not sure federalizing oil is that bad an idea I would not say this of any other sector... but...
there are some very special circumstances about oil
TinyShrimp
is
backing out of this plurk before I get into trouble. 
KSan
says
Shantabulous
says
is backing that ass up as well before I get plurk thumped.
KSan
says
What's the worst that can happen kids? Get into it.
say alright, but no one had better yell at me. LOL
TinyShrimp
says
that we should have taken care of Sadam and Obama Hussien (sp) a long time ago.
TinyShrimp
says
I don't think that Bush has done that bad considering he has been at war pretty much since he became president
KSan
says
I think starting that war pretty much made him a bad president....
I am sorry for the men and women that we have lost in this war, but it is better to fight it in Iraq then to have to fight it here
KSan
says
But Iraq wasn't a threat to us.
which is where it was headed
KSan
says
I mean I totally would agree with you if they were a threat to us, but they weren't. Haven't been for well over a decade.
Shantabulous
shares
JUST sayin'....
Shantabulous
loves
TinyShrimp
says
I believe they were. There a lot of things and threats that we are never told about.
KSan
says
Interestingly enough, I found this quote from Bush Sr's memoirs about why he didn't go after Saddam in the first place:
Iraq and North Vietnam have ALWAYS been a threat to us.
KSan
says
Hold the thought on that quote. How Tinyshrimp?
KSan
says
They have no weapons to strike at us. They've always been on the brink of civil war themselves ... we helped push them over the brink. We
KSan
says
were the direct cause of the fighting in the streets...the disrupted government, the chaos. Us.
KSan
says
They hadn't even threatened us since 1993. I'm just curious where you get this information on a threat.
I agree with KSan, Iraq was not a threat until we made them one. Al Queda is NOT Iraq - but a small faction of idiots.
We had no business in Iraq and forcing our ideals on another country for the sake of raping their lands of oil.
KSan
says
I'm not trying to stomp you into the ground tinyshrimp. You've been mislead. I'm doing a paper right now on the gross negligence of the
TinyShrimp
says
its not well known but the government had a list of what they called the four axes of evil. Sadam, Obama, and the North Korean Pres
Bush is a one-minded masogonist who has taken this country into the bowels of hell
were three of them. I can't remember the 4th.
That list was created AFTER we invaded Iraq tinyshrimp - NOT before
KSan
says
... when you're talking about Obama, do you mean Osama? As in Bin Laden? Not Barack Obama the presedential cnadidate?
the government has always know that things would come to a head. They just didn't know when.
KSan
says
And yes, your government has been spewing bullshit by the ton for the past 8 years...more than usual, and far more dangerous than a blow job
I'm telling you as someone that has ppl with access that the list did not exist prior to Bush
Dang it, KSan yes I am. Sorry about that. Got confused. LOL its eaily doen.
done
KSan
says
Yes, they said those things...but what has been said and what is fact are two very different things. There are, I believe, 935 identifiable
KSan
says
VERIFIED, lies that have come from that administration regarding Iraq
JustJen
will
attest to tinyshrimp's easy confusion
and no Jen, that list was created before 911. It has been there for years.
KSan
says
That we aren't holding our president responsible for that...well, that's why the rest of the world is literally laughing at us.
not the hot list tinyshrimp - EVERY country is on a watch list and rated based on activity
it changes daily
we have become a joke thanks to Bush
Shantabulous
says
and I'm sorry but Barack is the only dude cut out for fixing that.
TinyShrimp
says
governments have always lied, but how do we know for sure that those verifying the lies aren't lying?
Bush did this and has taken us into another Vietnam... but the death toll is worse and the psychological toll much worse
Shantabulous
says
to tinyshrimp, don't you think that's a little bit of a conspiracy theory?
KSan
says
tinyshrimp because verified means researched. Oh I'm sure some of it can be argued back and forth
It's going to take at least 2-3 terms to even start undoing what Bush has done to this country
KSan
says
But we're talking HARD evidence here.
Shantabulous
feels
that talking will be what solves it.
Obama is starting to scare me because he is back peddling on the issue
Shantabulous
says
you're right JustJen, but it will begin to mend the mess.
you can't rationalize a war. Talking should have been what was done to avoid it
KSan
says
Obama has always scared me.
KSan
says
He has pretty words...but pretty words are meaningless in the long run.
But Bush saw oil and money for his buddies.
Shantabulous
says
exactly JustJen
Shantabulous
says
she <3's Obama to the moon and back. And he will make it to office, look who the choices are. lol
he may be elected, but I just dont think he will ever be allowed to serve his term
Shantabulous
says
people are sick of the Bushit
*agrees* about obama softening up... but that is part of presidential politics... look at how much McCain has been handled
KSan
says
No one even had to talk about the war. The war was started by us. I have no idea how we started talking about Iraq when we were supposed
KSan
says
to be catching Osama...
TinyShrimp
says
that the senate chose to go to war too. They had access to all the same info and should have done their own research before agreeing
KSan
says
The senate was lied to.
the closer you get to the "real" (general) election... the more you get handled
Being sick of the Bushit does not make them more accepting of a black president
they all backed out AFTER they were hearing the backlash.
KSan
says
And when they tried to go....hey wait a minute, they were called traitors and boo'ed down by the american public
I don't believe in the HARD evidence they are coming up with.
Shantabulous
says
black, schmack. I hate that we live in a country where that still matters. Hello, it's 2008!
KSan
says
They were mislead along with the rest of us.
fact: they never looked for Osama
fact: there were no weapons of mass destruction
and Jen we wouldn't be having so much problem if Americans would grow some balls and quit whining about how we are treating peole
people
how about taking care of OUR streets first
KSan
says
Well, if you don't believe in hard evidence, I can't help you. I mean, what else do we have? You'd rather believe the words of a liar?
KSan
says
The world is laughing at us because they ARE holding people accountable.
Shantabulous
says
tinyshrimp, at least we can agree on something. Hooray for growing testicles.
KSan
says
Because they HAVE done the research our news people should have.
we would be able to take better care of our soldiers and get finished if we weren't having to be so careful about how we treat everyone
KSan
says
Britain booted out Tony Blair for following Bush, among other things yes but mostly the Bush issue. They're a lot smarter than us.
it could be argued we could take better care of our soldiers if they were not on someone elses soil fighting an illegitimate war
it is THEIR country and we have no business telling them they need to run it like ours
KSan
says
Do you know why we're stuck there tinyshrimp? Ironically enough, Bush Sr wrote about it in his memoirs...why HE didn't try it. Too bad he
Shantabulous
says
how we treat others is important.
KSan
says
failed to remind his son what a bad idea it would be to oust Saddam.
liakash
says
Wow I guess Socal is going to have excellent Karma after this
Shantabulous
loves
vryNRSN
we, as a nation, have a tough time admitting we are wrong and would rather rationalize
the pair we need to grow is the one that allows us to say... we fucked up.. and are going to undo it as fast as possible (IMO)
KSan
says
That's very true.
Shantabulous
says
sorenj - agreed
Shantabulous
wonders
something
instead we have wasted lives (ours and theirs), lined Bush's friend's pockets, exploited OUR people all to stroke Bush's ego
this was not about war, it was about oil
not trying to pick on tinyshrimp there is plenty of literature to back her position... I just do not buy any of it
Shantabulous
wonders
if China say had come into America because they hate us, and hated our leader, and knew, just knew we had WMD's, and they took over
justjen... bingo
Shantabulous
wonders
killing our people
Shantabulous
wonders
How would WE feel?
still doesn't believe we were wrong in going into Iraq. Bush Sr should have taken care of it when he was in office
for what it is worth, not even my Kuwaiti ex-wife believes that
Shantabulous
says
ok, shrimp, but he didn't and so, why not leave it be?
KSan
says
Bush Sr has this to say about why he didn't:
and yes Jen we do need to clean up our own streets, but how can we do that if tie the hands of everyone by telling them to do it but be nice
and she watched her best friend get be-headed on her front lawn by iraqi soldiers under his command
KSan
says
"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq...would have incurred incalculable human and political
about it. Our jails are overfilled because we are too nice. Arkansas tried putting the chain gang back in practice and got naile for it
KSan
says
costs...We would have been forced to occupy Iraq and in effect rule Iraq...there was no viable exit strategy we could see...Had we gone the
We got rid of Saddam what a year and a half ago? What's the purpose now tinyshrimp?
be-headed... seriously, soren??? Decapitated 
I say quit making jail time so easy on people. Make them actually have to pay for what they did.
Who the hell made us the gate keepers to the world
KSan
says
invasion route, the US could conceivably still be an occuppying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically differen
KSan
says
and perhaps barren, outcome.
THE UN turned its back on us and did not support this war tinyshrimp - very few countries supported us
if there was this "list" you talk of, the UN would have been privy to it and would have backed us 100% - that was NOT the case
KSan
says
Only Britain...and again the brits were smart enough to get rid of Blair for it.
Shantabulous
says
and now I can't think of one country that supports us
None - we are a HUGE target thanks to Bush
KSan
says
Look. On 9/11 the whole world was WITH us. "we are all americans" that was the headline in France, England, everywhere. Come 2004... when
notes, we are not the gate keepers of the world, just of nations of interest to us... see sudan etc.
Jen, there was a list. I saw it the month before 911. The UN knew there was a list.
KSan
says
we re-elected bush, their headlines read...why are they so stupid.
and I hate to say it but Babylon will fall
KSan
says
We're done for. We're so much in debt we won't climb out for years. We will be dependent on other countries for years to come.
atrocities are perfectly fine... provided they do not inter-fear (intentional) with our dependencies
if you don't think Bush and his cronies have always known where to find Bin Laden tinyshrimp you are wrong
KSan
says
Guess what...Osama succeeded. He's brought the world's mightiest country down to its knees. With no small amt of help from Bush.
not "finding" Bin Laden has allowed him to continue this farce
Shantabulous
says
no one ever answers my question when I ask that one. lol
LOL we can argue this all day long, but in the end I will still stand behind the Bush administration. He was the one person who had the
I am of the opinion had Bush not been elected and Gore had we would have never had a 9/11
Sir Big Papa
is
not convinced finding bin laden is that easy... but agrees that 7 years is a bit much
balls to do what needed to be done. Even if no one else believes it...I still do.
KSan
says
I don't know about all that. I'm eager to read this new book that came out about how Iraq was always going to happen. Osama just gave em
Shantabulous
says
Well shrimp, you're certainly one of the few and proud that douche bag has left.
KSan
says
a great excuse and the backing ofthe american people.
KSan
says
tinyshrimp , believe me, I don't blame your idealism. After all, Bush has the press behind him too. It's hard to know who to trust when you
I've read military papers on this - tinyshrimp if you think our military personnel have back this war after year 1, you would be misguided
Jen, 911 would have happened no matter who was in office. The Clinton administration KNEW that something was gong to happen
KSan
says
can't trust your president. I urge you to look it up...see what other, unbiased countries have to say about the facts. THEN decide for
they ignored it.
KSan
says
yourself. I never WANTED to hate bush. But honestly...he should be tried for war crimes.
Just like the Clinton administration were warned about the OKC bombing.
I agree with lyricalkris
which they chose to ignore also.
how did they ignore it tinyshrimp when they were following UN protocol and passed the info to the new adminstration who chose to do
Shantabulous
says
the Bush administration knew something was going to happen in July, and so what? Honestly.
nothing even though it was a known threat
KSan
says
No one said that 9/11 wouldn't have happened under any president...
Shantabulous
says
Amen.
KSan
says
The fact is Iraq has ABSOLuTELY nothing to do with 9/11. Not a damn thing. So why are we there?
I did.. I dont think it would have happened under Gore because we would have been prepared
if Bush were the president of any but a tiny handful of nations they'd be looking for him at the hague
Shantabulous
says
if you're going to blame an administration look at the one with whom you so closely back, they did ignore it too.
Bush ignored the clinton admin findings
I am hoping once his term is up the UN brings him up on war crimes
I think you have to consider the motive... if Gore had been in office... I'm not sure our security would have been much better...
I think it was Jen that made the comment about 911 above, and I do believe they are related.
however, i do think people in other countries would have had some hope for us... and might have waited to see where we went on int. policy
TinyShrimp
thinks
that it wouldn't have mattered who was in office we would still be at war.
nihilism is a very dangerous thing... if you take away someones hope... all order and reason goes with it
KSan
says
HOW tinyshrimp
KSan
says
I mean, tell me where they started it..because that's the only way that it would have happened ...
KSan
says
SHOW me. I'm not above being proved wrong. Part of me WANTS to be proved wrong.
on that tinyshrimp I completely disagree
(about the war in Iraq that is)
KSan
says
I don't want to believe that our country is full of this much ignorance(and to define, this means they're not informed on the facts)
not only did we need bush... but we also needed someone like Powell to convince the UN
Bush could not have pulled that off
JustJen
says
no tinyshrimp, there would have never been a war, we would have gone over with the intelligence we had, neutralized the threat
and been on our way within 90 days
Al queda would have been taken down, including bin laden and there would have been no war
Sir Big Papa
is
with kasn... I cannot think of anything I'd rather find out than that I am wrong about this
okay, I'm outie. Seize ya'll.
Sir Big Papa
is
lyricalkris even
KSan
says
TinyShrimp
says
that is just wishful thinking Jen. We gave them ample opportunity to allow us to go in and neutralize the threat. Tehy refused
to allow us in
KSan
says
WHAT THREAT!
it was a bad sign IMO when Powell stepped down from the administration because he did not believe in Bush any longer
KSan
says
Sorry, didn't mean to yell. lol.
wait... which threat did we give them ample opportunity to?
KSan
says
Just this language, saying things without really saying them...
KSan
says
WE accused them of having WMDs. They said, um , no? WE demanded to be shown their plants. They said...Um no...it was their right...
KSan
says
No threat existed... we made it up.
it is not our country we were not UN sanctioned to be there.. and when the UN said fine go in there ws NOTHING
KSan
says
I mean, give me a break, if Britain comes in here saying, "I think you are planning to take over the world, let us see all your technology"
KSan
says
We would have told them to go straight to hell...
well... if I remember right... we *did* get access to just about everything other than Saddam's compounds, right?
we had sat images, there was nothing EVER moved from the sites
KSan
says
We did indeed.
I havent forgotten and NOTHING was found
KSan
says
A flair gun was found...that was a great bit on The Daily Show. I laughed so much.
There is no underground railroad to move stuff through - they would have had to take the weapons above ground to caverns and no movement
my favorite part was the tractor marks in the empty lots "this is typical of a WMD sight" (or a new 7-11!!!!!)
TinyShrimp
says
I still believe that they did have the WMDs.
KSan
says
....
Shrimp there was no way - we were all over doing recon and sats and fly over
KSan
says
Even Cheney and Bush have admitted that there were none...
no movement, no way to get them out
if they had nothing to hide why say no?
I'm not even sure thath the Bush administration still believes that (assuming they ever did)
KSan
says
I mean...if you're going to believe them, then believe them.
KSan
says
Because it was none of our business?
lyricalkris is right, they have admitted there were NONE
KSan
says
What are we? Papa to the world...they are their own country
apparently - Bush has decided we are the world police
not unlike the Christian Crusades - do as we tell you are die
KSan
says
"President Bush and his vice president conceded yesterday in the clearest terms yet that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction"
the attack on the pentagon still puzzles me there was no evidence of plane parts and no other damage
LOL KSan. We all may as well agree to disagree
KSan
says
I don't understand though... are you disagreeing with the president you're agreeing with?
KSan
says
I mean, it's one thing to say that you believe everything he says, that I can understand, but not believing what he says??
and Jen...just for the record.... I know some military people that have volutarily gone back to Iraq because they believe that we do
need to be there
um tinyshrimp my love, those are the president's words - he admitted it on national television in an address that there was nothing
KSan
says
Sure, of course. And some people in the military think we're making a heinous mistake and have killed themselves or gone AWOL...
I've had friends that have volunteered as well - but to keep others safely at home with their children
KSan
says
Did you know that there have been more suicides in the army in the past 6 years than...ever...
I promise, I know MORE military personnel than you tinyshrimp and NONE of them support this even if they did volunteer
TinyShrimp
says
I never said war was easy on anyone.
but overseas money is nice and if they are above a certain rank or in certain branches they are not front lines
KSan
says
Oh, I'm sure some, somewhere do. After all, Bush still has a ... what...pathetic 34% approval rating?
KSan
says
Goes to figure that some people in the army believe in him... if some of us here do.
OMG! Is it THAT high? LOL
Jen, I still believe they were there.
well that would stand to reason - all of my friends are Navy, AirForce and Marines
shrimp, there was nothing, no evidence nothing
WMD's would leave a trail of evidence chemically - no radiation no trace, nothing
KSan
says
Sigh, tinyshrimp...even Bush doesn't believe it. Even Cheney...
no leachings....tcountry was cleane
um...the country was clean
KSan
says
KSan
says
There, you can hear it straight from the horses mouth. Give me any other argument...tell me about how bad Saddam was, I can understand that.
KSan
says
But I can't understand believing something that even the biggest of proven liars is telling you is not true.
lyricalkris (bet you never thought you'd see that, huh?)
KSan
says
haha that is true 
hang on, have an emergency phone call
KSan
says
Hope all is well. Still <3 ya, you know! 
or tiny even...
KSan
says
lol, yea I was reassuring her that though I very obviously disagree with her, her presence on my timeline would be missed if she went away
KSan
says
hehehe
phew - thought you were getting soft on me for a minute...lol
but you know lyricalkris - you're the only one on here that can debate with me and hold your own... I enjoy it
KSan
says
I would hope there are a lotta people that could. The propensity for human beings to think deeply about a subject is perhaps one of the
KSan
says
greatest gifts we have. If we don't do it, why would we consider ourselves better than a gorilla, who is intelligent and can learn as well.
KSan
says
And besides that it's just plain good times 
sorry everyone. I know it probably seemed like I was copping out. My nephew spilled bacon grease down his chest.
I like the fact that you are no-holds barred and passionate about your beliefs and willing to voice them - most aren't
and no lyricalkris I won't leave the time line because of this. I know most people don't agree with me.
KSan
says
Ouch! Hope he's okay. Don't worry, I didn't think you were copping out
oh don't get it twisted, I actually DO enjoy you KSan... you're a LOT like I was at your age lol
tinyshrimp knows I love her (who else would I drunk dial)
KSan
says
Bring it on out NewYorkJew, I make about as many friends when I open my big mouth as I do ... uh... non friends? They're not enemies.
JustJen
says
I'm vocal, lyricalkris is vocal - speak your piece Jew, no love lost here... ever
KSan
says
Yea, worse that can happen is we won't friend you.
KSan
says
General agreement with the majority in this plurk. That I got.
KSan
says
That's what's so maddening about the current administration...and the press, omg. Did they forget how to be journalists?!
KSan
says
I mean, in the shock and awe campaign, friendlies and innocents were hit and you have the administration going, well could have been
KSan
says
their anti-aircraft stuff...who knows. Well, a guy in BRITAIN goes into the field..picks up a piece of the bomb shell, has it ID'd as coming
KSan
says
from Texas in no time... I mean that wasn't even that HARD.
Thanks lyricalkris and NewYorkJew he is okay, just in a lot of pain.
JustJen
says
NewYorkJew, me and lyricalkris aren't
oops - "friends" but we get along just fine in debate (usually) she's actually a great girl...
he needs to sit in a cold bath - until almost numb. the subcutaneous tissues will continue to burn until cooled completely
rule is usually 20-30 minutes depending on how "red" the area is
hehehe... lyricalkris might not be the only one But... I've yet to have to disagree with you JustJen
But... I've yet to have to disagree with you JustJen